@ireneista @aud I've already seen a Vim fork that when I have the energy I might switch to:

https://codeberg.org/NerdNextDoor/evi

I've also fantasized about just making an entirely fresh OS, even though I likewise lack the skills. There's gotta be... Thousands? Tens of thousands? of people in this bucket right now...

I think the deeper problem is governance? How exactly are you going to ensure an equivalent thing doesn't happen to this new project? I think clear politics baked into the project is probably best, but that's hard to get right.

@tiotasram @ireneista @aud i think the values (what i think you mean by politics) are deeper than governance. governance structures are certainly important, but if they are held more important than values, that governance structure can be captured. if you have a community working together that all share some basic values, attempts to subvert those values will be met with resistance.

i personally think a good set of values stems from supporting the autonomy of the folks operating, creating, and otherwise affected by the software (or other project). resistance to large language models follows from it, for instance.

@ireneista @tryst @aud good point; values is a much better way to think about this.

Sadly although I agree that an anti-LLM stance does logically flow from values of freedom for users, I think there are many who perceive themselves as valuing user freedom but who embrace (or don't strongly oppose) LLMs, Linus Torvalds being perhaps a decent example?

It's not an insurmountable problem, but the same statement of a "value" will mean different things to different people, and in some cases like "freedom" you've got layers of propaganda all over the place trying to distort what that means.

@tiotasram @tryst @aud yes. there are two implications -

in any written document that attempts to state the values, it's important to address all the points of tension we can reasonably anticipate; and

since society changes over time, and new issues rise to prominence, the written statements need to change with it