@alineblankertz

what does "to socialize" mean? i understand it intuitively as an act that a government can do, by taking a legal entity and giving ownership over it and over all of its assets to another entity. what is the new destination of this ownership, this transfer? and is the government the one that can do this transfer?

i've read the CoR manifesto carefully and it also uses a different word, "expropriate". is this different, in intention, from "socialize"?

@catileptic
The manifesto uses both terms indeed. Malte and I have been writing and giving talks on socialising platforms only in German (so far - changing soon I hope), and the term used there is "Vergesellschaftung".

The objective is not centralised/state ownership, but democratic organisation where the relevant groups make decisions, not shareholders. The German initiative @dwenteignen is a very practical project to bring housing under democratic control: https://dwenteignen.de/en

@alineblankertz thank you for linking, i knew about the housing initiative ^^

i don't want to take up too much of your time, but, if you happen to have the energy, would you be willing to clarify just these 2 points:
1) who can initiate a "socialization" / who coordinates it? the government?
2) what does "expropriation" mean in the context of the manifesto and how does it differ from 'socialization"?

@catileptic
Oh, I am very happy to discuss :)

1) How socialisation works is a legal and a social/political question. Re legal I mostly refer to @malteengeler
but there are also people who "socialise" stuff by taking it over directly and then figuring out the legal pathway, e.g. automotive workers in Florence (inspiring example!): https://www.tuc.org.uk/workplace-guidance/case-studies/gkn-workers-florence-fight-take-over-ownership-their-factory-and

Having a government on your side certainly makes things easier, but we see with DWE that following legal procedures is not sufficient.

@catileptic
2) The difference between expropriation and socialisation is nuanced. We used both terms because we think that both are good approaches for slightly different, but overlapping domains.

You can expropriate tech billionaires and that is certainly a useful step - you cannot socialise them, only their wealth ;) For digital infrastructure, expropriation can be a step towards socialisation (depending on the legal regime etc.). Either way, we want democratic control.

@alineblankertz

i will refer to the "we" that you used, i don't know who it refers to, but when i say "you", below, i mean it in the plural.

socialization would then be a process initiated by those who want to take over a private entity? but expropriation is a legal proceeding, from what i know. how do you envision who has the authority to decide which private entities (persons or companies) are "expropriated"?

@malteengeler @alineblankertz sorry, just to be clear: i've never said anything about whether socialization / expropriation is a good or bad idea :) i understand the "why" behind it. thank you for taking the time to really go into detail, i appreciate it, but this isn't what i'm curious about

what i'm trying to understand is exactly what i asked. what is the authority / entity that initiates and orchestrates expropriation / socialization, in this vision? :)