I'm not better than someone else because I know more than them about something and have had the ability to spend more time on it, but I am far more impatient because those kinds of folks like to pretend that I don't know shit or can't have thoughts other than ones that match theirs. They're not engaging in conversation, and they're not engaging in building off another person's understanding.
They are engaging in forcing silence and compliance, and I will not have it.
Also, because I'm frustrated by this, if you think Paulo Freire was primarily focusing on working with CHILDREN, then you don't know what the fuck you're actually referencing.
And if you think FRANCISCO FERRER is the epitome of anarchist education, then you may as well merge with my least favourite hack historian of anarchists.
@whatanerd I genuinely believe both that the people who do this have actually not heard of any other theorists/writers/models because the have no interest in or knowledge of the subject, and that the majority of them haven't even read anything besides quotes and MAYBE longer excerpts from either Ferrer or Freire.
And I mean, neither have I, which is fine, because I don't go popping up in stranger's mentions like "have you heard the gospel of our Lord and Savior Paulo Freire" π
@whatanerd i don't know much about the theory of anarchist education, but i know what i learned myself attending the playcentre in wellington (a surprisingly traditional* model there where parents, both maori and pakeha, form a co-op and just kind of let kids learn what they're interested in), and it's so wild to me that europeans interested in the topic have never heard of this system
*as in, most people would assume it was founded from some modern developmental theory, rather than out of necessity in the 1940s
@whatanerd If I may illustrate the vibes with some mental images, we had a bunch of these huge rope spools donated by someone's parent who had... some kind of job that gave them access to wholesale or scrap rope spools, I guess. They were among the various things we used as playground equipment. Once, my youngest brother wrapped some of this rope around my other brother's neck, and my mum commended the latter brother for years for his inherent horse-sense based on having seen his instinct to immediately cling on for dear life and scream for help when he found himself in a high place (sat on top of the spool) with rope around his neck.
The same sensible brother had a period of nearly a year (at the age of 3 or 4 at most, so that is a long phase) where every morning, he would go to the costume closet, put on a pair of huge pink high heels, go out into the yard, go to the little pedal powered digging machine in the sandpit, then sit pedaling it in the shoes and digging the whole sandpit over, for hours and hours and hours, day after day. Apparently no attempt was made to dissuade him from this, everyone thought it was a lark and they just left him to it, he did other things when he felt like it. He is now an actuary who does triathlons and yet somehow in the high upper percentiles of the straight men I've met (even more impressive given we are both definitely autistic) for general self-intuition and wisdom in his social functioning, somehow I feel like these pictures are connected.
I still remember a smattering of Maori vocabulary from the songs we learned there. I must have had some internal motivation towards it, because participation in song learning, story listening etc was on a purely voluntary basis, like if you would rather be digging mud or something you could just go do it whenever. I have no memory of feeling in conflict with the rules and expectations of those around me, since if I was asking to be taught a thing due to wanting the stimulation of getting to do it how I've seen it done... well, I asked how to do it, didn't I?
I did not adjust well to mainstream school once we moved to Australia, and was assessed for an intellectual disability pretty much immediately because my response to entering a classroom was to look around, notice there was a bookshelf, pick one off at random and have a look, and to just ignore that the room also included some adults organising a worksheets session. The teachers concluded that since kids that young can't read at that level, and since I showed social skill deficiencies, I was trying to hide from other children behind the book, and didn't even realise it wasn't a plausible choice. (An IQ test saved me from special education, eventually the thing they did with me was say "if you go up a year, and work hard on the more stimulating material, then you get to read books out loud to your former year 1 classmates every Monday".)
I am frustrated all the time when working in Finnish kindergartens because we spend so much time telling the kids not to eat play-doh, when at Playcenter they just made brightly dyed salt dough, the general vibe was towards freeing up adult attention budget for more important things (and it was fun to participate in making the salt dough sometimes). The first time I worked in one here, I got halfway to making a kid a sandwich before my coworker stopped me like "wait what on earth are you doing, it is not meal time". I genuinely didn't realise we would be expected to make them all sleep at the same time, rather than designating an area of quiet space to do that in whenever. Wish I could give them what I had.
@compost_funeral Took me a few reads to comprehend that first paragraph. I kept getting stuck at "Oh no, that poor brother!"
But yeah, that anecdotal bit where it's like... not being in conflict with rules and expectations when you're allowed to gravitate toward your interests and then go to someone being like "Excuse me, I want to learn this thing, please" makes everything so much easier.
When I had classes that I could run more in a way of "Okay, here's 10-15 minutes about this concept and what it looks like. Try it out or don't while you're working on your project" (like a creative writing class), a lot of the kids loved it. I ended up receiving all assignments on time (and if I didn't, someone was like "No, I have like at least another page to do, can I turn it in tomorrow?" and a lot of kids learning to negotiate time or recognise what more they needed/wanted to doβthis included kids who everyone else complained could never turn anything in on time), kids who told me they hated writing and took the class because they needed and English credit that were writing more than they needed to (giving me basically multiple novellas to read in a semester), all of the kids trying their best to work with literary concepts and see if they could use them somewhere (and also express why they liked them, didn't like them, found them useful, etc)... Like, that kind of freedom (which still wasn't super free because we were trapped within the school's typical structure) clearly worked for a lot of them and unlocked a lot of ideas.
Hell, it even opened up a lot of voluntary group work where someone would be like "Well, I think my story sucks" and someone else would ask to read it and then give feedback, which helped improve it. They realised, without anyone telling them, that a solitary activity could be done with other people. (I remember at the beginning of the semester a couple times that a few kids, who had been brow-beaten into doing only their own work, asked me if it was okay to help someone. Like, yeah. Of course it is? Why wouldn't it be?)
I also agree with the comment you wrote about Finnish kindergartens. It's similar around here. Everyone sleeps at the same time (even if they're not sleepy), everyone reads at the same time (even if they don't want to)... And then you get to listen to adults bitch about kids "not doing what their told."
Also, I think any time we have an excess of children to adults in a ratio? It's nonsensical. A 1:20 ratio of adults to kids is so fucking absurd. Even 1:10 is nonsensical to me. Learning spaces should be more mixed than they are; they should be intergenerational. And the more we silo kids, especially the youngest kids, from the world to keep them away until they're old enough to exist? The less other adults learn how to engage with young kids and realise they are just as much part of the world as they are.
@whatanerd oh the ratio and age stratification thing also had an interesting resolution in this system!
The rules were, apparently, that adults were expected to attend with their kids in a way that corresponded to their age. With a 0-1 year old, you came with them every time. With a 2 year old, every other time. With a 3 year old, every third time, up till the age of 5 when the parent only has one day of childcare responsibilites per work week. Which unfortunately only works if you can get the people around you to agree to a very slowly staggered re-entering of the workforce, or have a partner who can support you, both were a lot more possible in the 90s in Aotearoa-NZ than they are now, there or most places. It's a much more humane separation timetable for both kids and adults, I hate watching the kids scream the first time their parent drops them off at a standard kindergarten and just leaves them with total strangers for hours and hours, cold turkey. It feels so wrong given I know there are ways to work that don't produce this.
The adult-child ratio was both really high in comparison to most kindergartens (making the work per adult not huge, and they had time to do stuff like build new structures to climb on) and more or less automatically adjusted to the age range present that day, so no need for separate classes with different mandated staffing ratios.
The idea of "old enough to exist" is such a good phrasing. If you look at early colonisers' accounts of Maori people, one of their chief observations is that this concept didn't seem to be strongly present, Europeans looked on in shock as any child willing to behave enough to be in the circle was allowed to ask questions during a war council, and get genuine answers. (And wasn't assaulted for failing to recognise authority, like the British sailors would have been as children.)