Luna LacteaWhat's Debian's AI policy? I might try to install it with OpenRC if I can figure it out.
I tried searching for it so I could read it myself, but every search engine shows a million conflicting stories made in the past week, & every single one of them is randomly generated. There are so many that uBlacklist isn't helping. I also can't find it on debian.org.
What are any "no ai" operating systems? Besides Chimera Linux, Gentoo, elementary OS, & AerynOS. Literally anything Unix like is fine for me as long as the maintainers aren't randomly generating their code, it's not getting randomly generated code from upstream too badly, & I can use it for everyday things like my laptop, my server, & my desktop.
I have to ask because it's hard to find any information through search engines no matter how much I filter now, there's just so much randomly generated garbage. 
I just want guaranteed safe software on my computer instead of this garbage. When a developer or maintainer uses randomly generated code (which universally is bad in some way, even when it looks good), that tells me that they aren't reviewing code from other contributors properly & do not care. It makes it easier for a bad actor to put in some malicious code without being noticed because no one is double checking it.
It's also unethical. I also don't want to deal with my operating system being pulled out from under me later when there's a legal issue caused by code that chatgpt or whatever stole & copied & the technical debt created by LLM use is too great for the issue to be fixed right away. I just want out.
@puppygirlhornypost2 How has Gentoo been for you? How would you compare its difficulty & amount of problems to something like Ubuntu or Fedora? Like can I put Steam on it & play games without too much struggle?
Kirby@jackemled @puppygirlhornypost2 hi, gentoo user on temporary vacation extended far too much for comfort here. yes you can use steam on it with little to no issue, it is in fact in the official yentoo repos : )
@jackemled @puppygirlhornypost2 gentoo in general has been great. using it is on par with using arch, it is really out of your way. even more so because the repo maintainers dont ship broken software updates to their users unlike arch
moth bitch@kebokyo @jackemled @puppygirlhornypost2 almost negligible. the new stuff you really learn are the basics of using portage and the new init system. both of which are pieces of software which are mostly elegantly designed
@kirby @jackemled @puppygirlhornypost2 oh wait, gentoo doesn’t use systemd? That’s interesting, especially considering the whole “we like LLMs a lot and use them every day actually” controversy they got into
I’ve lost my ability to care regarding it but I am curious to try out a different init system that isn’t so all-encompassing lol
@kirby @jackemled @puppygirlhornypost2 I have heard about that one but only in passing… dang it I think I might need to replace my arch installation on my desktop with gentoo to see if I can actually run Deadlock on it without the game freezing up and requiring a relaunch once or twice a match 
vaartis of the ratular bells@kebokyo @kirby @jackemled @puppygirlhornypost2 actually that might be because you're changing keyboard layout or using party voice chat, that's been happening to me too (on gentoo), it's a general issue with steam or the game itself I believe
@kirby @puppygirlhornypost2 that's so real
What about update delays? Does it usually take a while for new versions of things to be packaged or are they pretty quick like Fedora?
What about update delays? Does it usually take a while for new versions of things to be packaged or are they pretty quick like Fedora?
@jackemled @puppygirlhornypost2 they're pretty quick
@kirby @puppygirlhornypost2 Thank you!
@jackemled @puppygirlhornypost2 during the xz incident, the gentoo people reverted the package to an uninfected package like their lives depended on it. because, i guess it did
@kirby @puppygirlhornypost2 real actually
@jackemled you've just eliminated the 4 operating systems that are the most ideal for navigating past this situation..
@jackemled or do you just want a list of all of them?
@kirby Yes exactly. I know the four most ideal operating systems for this issue, but I still want to be aware of other options because four feels like too little.
I would just use Chimera, but it's missing a few things or behind on updates. I haven't checked Gentoo yet, mostly because its reputation of being harder to use than Arch. When I look at elementary OS it seems more like a Windows replacement than something I could put on my computers & my server & do the things I do with them. I have only just heard about AerynOS & I don't know much about it.
Azukuni dorimuru@jackemled FreeBSD is one
@azukuni Where do they say that?
@jackemled Hmmmm... Nevermind? Apparently they currently have no policy yet
@jackemled Though apparently NetBSD banned AI
https://www.theregister.com/2024/05/18/distros_ai_code/
https://www.theregister.com/2024/05/18/distros_ai_code/
hazel 
@hazel Thank you. I mean stuff that's not on the list though.
Senil@jackemled Debian right doesn't have a firm stance. The consensus so far seems to be case-by-case, but any contribution that does needs to specify that it was (which is difficult because there aren't reliable ways to tell, and basing arguments on copyright is difficult because jurisdictions differ and what is acceptable in one region can differ greatly in another). There's a draft general resolution, but it's in draft state because there isn't consensus on what "AI" means to them, and how they could restrict certain forms in the first place.
https://blog.desdelinux.net/en/Debian-debates-the-future-of-AI-models-in-its-ecosystem/
@jackemled Which is, unfortunately, the correct thing to do for them as a massive org operating largely with volunteer labor with a lot of reliance on their product. There's no point in having a "no AI" (or no LLM or whatever) policy if you can't strictly define what that looks like.
Is something like Intellisense classed as "AI" for this case? It's easy to say that entire massive generated sections is a thing to bar, but how can you tell how much was generated raw and how much was used as a start point before modifying from there? What if the entire thing was generated, but the person submitting the PR or whatever have you demonstrates that they clearly understand the output and have thoroughly reviewed it themself? Yeah it's easy to just reject PR's from agents so long that they're clearly labeled as such, but anything beyond that becomes challenging.
Raising matters with copyright just becomes a massive minefield due to licensing and IP law. You could make the case that it could accidentally mimic code from a project with an incompatible license which might raise legal issues, but how could anyone tell if it's actually copying that differently-licensed code or if it just happened to look like that? (and that's ignoring folks who do just do things similarly to projects licensed in other ways regardless, because why not borrow a general idea or concept that does what you want to do)
I don't think there's really a strong way to enforce any "no AI/LLM/generated code" policy in general, especially with a project as massive as Debian. It's all very reliant on trusting contributors.
@senil I would just say "no LLMs", because that's very simple & completely captures everything being marketed as "AI" right now, but it's hard to enforce. I have seen some good AI policies that handle this the best they can despite that though. Fedora tries to make sure LLM use is declared so those contributions can be easily ignored when a normal contribution for the same thing is made or more thoroughly investigated when there are no other contributions for the same thing. I can't remember exactly, but I think Linux's AI policy is "if your code is shit we are banning you, you must demonstrate a complete understanding of your contribution or else we are microwaving your hard drive!". Mastodon's AI policy seemed good to me too, but I'm not sure how it scales.