Pretty Gnostic MachineMar 13

My hunch: Consciousness starts as a system modeling the world. Selfhood arrives later, when the model turns inward and begins modeling the modeler. That's when the boundary sharpens: inside vs outside.

The "I" is not the source of awareness - it's the recursive moment when awareness places itself inside the picture.

Consciousness models the world.
Selfhood models the modeler.
Geist begins when modelers model each other.

#philosophy
#consciousness
#Geist

Show threadlankohrMar 13
@PrettyGnosticMaschine The "I" is the "original sin" in some religious views. So the "I" is the opposite of awareness. The "I" is the ignorance of the demiurge, the veil between god and human, Maya.
Show threadPretty Gnostic MachineMar 14

@lankohr Interesting way to frame it. Id say the "I" isn't the opposite of awareness, it's a structure inside awareness.

The brain builds a self-model so the organism can navigate the world. Useful, but easy to mistake for the WHOLE of consciousness. That was Jung's point as well.

The real confusion begins when the model thinks it is the thing modeling.
In that sense the ego isn't evil or sinful, it's just a map that forgot it was a map. That forgetting is Demiurgic!

Show threadlankohr
@PrettyGnosticMaschine So the "I" is more the atom, smallest particle, of awareness? I'm not very familiar with Jung. But i've read he believed gnostic christianity (Jesus and his true disciples) were something like therapists. And i think he refers to Jesus saying: "You have to heal the souls of human."
Mar 14 at 5:10pmWeb
Show threadlankohrMar 14
@PrettyGnosticMaschine In the psychological theories realms i am more into Alice Miller and kind of Timothy Leary/Robert Anton Wilson ("eight-circuit model of consciousness", "Reality Tunnel"...)
Show threadPretty Gnostic MachineMar 15

@lankohr RAW's "reality tunnel" idea actually fits pretty well with how I think about it. The brain builds models of reality, and the self is one of those models. Different psychologies just explore different ways the tunnel can widen or narrow.

I like Jung, but Miller and Wilson are closer to the neuroscience-meets-experience side of things.

Show threadPretty Gnostic MachineMar 15
@lankohr I wouldn't say the "I" is the atom of awareness. In my view it's more like a software layer inside awareness- a self-model the brain builds to navigate the world. Useful, but not *fundamental*. Awareness likely precedes it. The ego isn't the smallest particle of mind; it's a tool consciousness evolved.