An 18-year-old woman in Queensland faces two years in jail for wearing a shirt that says "from the river to the sea."

https://lemmy.world/post/44131480

An 18-year-old woman in Queensland faces two years in jail for wearing a shirt that says "from the river to the sea." - Lemmy.World

More info on the Queensland laws: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2026/mar/05/queensland-pro-palestinian-phrase-ban-river-to-sea-laws-ntwnfb [https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2026/mar/05/queensland-pro-palestinian-phrase-ban-river-to-sea-laws-ntwnfb]

  • Calling for the destruction of a nation - be it Palestine or Israel - is calling for genocide.

  • It should be legal to call for genocide.

  • 1.5 “from the river to the sea” is not a slogan calling for the destruction of Israel.

    By defining the geographic scope of a future Palestinian state as the entire territory between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, the slogan encompasses the land where Israel currently exists. To remove all doubt about the context, remember that it has been widely used by groups like Hamas - whose founding charter explicitly calls for the elimination of Israel.

    In the 1960s, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) used it to call for what they saw as a “decolonized” state encompassing the entirety of Mandatory Palestine. By 1969, after several revisions, the PLO used the phrase to call for a one-state solution, that would mean “one democratic secular state that would supersede the ethno-religious state of Israel”.

    I’m sure there are people who use this phrase now and do not wish to destroy Israel. Just like there are people who use phrases like “all lives matter” and genuinely want racial equality. Unfortunately the terms are hard to disambiguate from the people chanting them.

    Either way, we won’t settle this argument now, and we don’t have to. I simply do not wish to see people imprisoned for saying offensive things. That seems like an important pillar of democracy to me. I uphold the rights of people to say offensive things especially when I disagree with them. Free speech means nothing unless we’re doing it when it’s really hard.

    From the river to the sea - Wikipedia

    If your interpretation of “Palestine will be free” somehow includes killing people because they’re Jewish, then you’re telling on yourself.
    It’s really simple, and didn’t require a text wall to explain.

    “Palestine will be free”

    This is not part of the original call to action. That is a modern addition used very selectively. It is frequently omitted, as we see on the t-shirt on the activist in the article. Selectively adding a nice phrase on the end of a very bad phrase doesn’t erase the original meaning, intent, and history of the phrase.

    Please also note that I did not suggest that the slogan is a call to kill all Jews. The slogan is a call to destroy Israel. Those are not mutually inclusive. Palestinian activists argue that when right wing Israelis call for the destruction of Palestine, that does constitute intent to commit genocide, and I agree. So I don’t have much tolerance for hypocrisy on this. I find the call to destroy any nation - be it Israel or Palestine - to be incredibly immoral.

    The same Wikipedia article hints at both Zionist and Palestinian use of a similar phrase even before PLO adopted it, so I am not sure if we can just plainly state that the cited sentiment is the original one behind this phrase.

    I have a honest question though - if one calls for a one state solution, would you say that it always entails destroying one or the other?

    In my imagination, even if it’s quite naïve, if there ever was a peaceful one-state resolution to this mess, it would indeed require superseding the ethno-state of Israel, but I don’t think it would necessarily be a destruction per se - similarly when the Russian Empire was superseded by the USSR, one could say that the Empire was destroyed but to me it was more of a regime change and policy shift (of course forced by a brutal civil war, but still, I don’t think it was destruction in a way we’d normally imagine when hearing the word). The Russian state essentially persisted, just in a different form.

    The same Wikipedia article hints at both Zionist and Palestinian use of a similar phrase even before PLO adopted it, so I am not sure if we can just plainly state that the cited sentiment is the original one behind this phrase.

    When Menachem Begin’s Likud party won the 1977 elections, its official platform explicitly laid out a vision for the land that excluded any possibility of a Palestinian state. The relevant section states: “The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable… therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.” It sounds kind of similar, and has been used by right wing parties since at various times. I condemn its use by them too.

    I have a honest question though - if one calls for a one state solution, would you say that it always entails destroying one or the other?

    This would require a 300 page document to answer. To shorten it, it would depend on things like the structure of the plan, the intent, the citizens involved, the negotiations, the history, and many other factors. As I have heard a one-state solution described by both Israel and Palestine leaders, they don’t want that. They want the other state to dissolve and be replaced by their respective states. Their positions are so unbelievably intractable it is impossible to ever envision a one-state solution.

    When I was younger I believed that a one-state solution were possible, but things have only deteriorated in my lifetime and having had long conversations with citizens of both nations, I cannot ever conceive of such a plan working. They hold a level of hatred for each other that is generational, built by collective trauma and pain, oppositional religious views which are extremely dogmatic, and a history which is literally Biblical.

    Thanks for your perspective

    As I have heard a one-state solution described by both Israel and Palestine leaders, they don’t want that. They want the other state to dissolve and be replaced by their respective states

    Except one state is the colonist and the other is getting genocided. How does it feel twosiding a genocide

    I’m referring to Hamas’ “one state” solutions they have proposed.
    Rightly so. Israeli are colonists and land thiefs.
    Thank you for proving my point. Many activists do indeed want to destroy Israel. Clearly Israel is never going to say, “sure thing!” So the region will remain at war.

    You really like your genocidal state dont you?

    Blink 3 times if they have recording of your holidays on jeffrey island

    You really like raping and murdering people, apparently.

    Yes, I do rape your mum for breakfast.

    She likes it.

    Just kidding unlike you I’m not a colonist

    There’s no war. There’s a genocide. Which you support

    When Palestine began the most recent war, it committed the worst attack on Jews since the Holocaust. Some of their first victims were innocent young people who supported the Palestinian cause. The Palestinians raped and murdered them en masse.

    It’s a war, and both sides are committing atrocities. Innocent bystanders are caught in the crossfire on both sides. If I understand your argument correctly, do I understand that you support raping and murdering innocent Jews?

    Some of their first victims were innocent young people at a music festival who supported the Palestinian cause

    Nooooo? Who knew shoving people in camps could push them into extremism am I right?

    I support raping and murdering of your mum mate. She did bad things in life. Not avorting for example

    I’m failing to see how the phrase “from the river to the sea”, alone, can be considered a call to destroy Israel, let alone unequivocally genocidal. It seems like there’s a lot of top-down reasoning required to arrive at either conclusion. I don’t think there is genocidal intent on the deployment of those words on that woman’s top. I think you assume too much. Israeli leaders use unmistakably genocidal language. And then they also commit genocide. You don’t get to both sides this issue with a very tenuous argument that this popular slogan is a call to genocide.

    This is like saying “I don’t see how the phrase “white power” alone can be considered a call to kill black people?” 🤣

    It is a call to destroy/eliminate Israel. Don’t try to pretend it’s not.

    No, it isn’t like that. Because “white power” is used exclusively by extremists, whereby “from the river to the sea” is not. Do you see the difference there?

    whereby “from the river to the sea” is not.

    It is though. They might not think they’re extremists, but they are.

    @FreedomAdvocate @crapwittyname the situation in Palestine and the broader west Asia region reveals exactly who the 'extremists' are: Israel and the US.
    People who are demanding an end to apartheid are extremists, you say. So apartheid, genocide, ethnonationalism, mowing the lawn, etc etc, are the norm, then? You’re raving mad.
    People demanding Israel be eliminated, which is what the saying means, are extremists, correct.
    I’m not sure if you’re aware of how language works, but I am. And I can assure you, your statement is not true, particularly the part you have italicised. This is not as simple as you think it is or would like it to be.
    I hope one day you realise how mistaken you are.
    The phrase was created with the explicit intent to destroy Israel. We can equivocate about the intent to destroy Israel as being genocidal, but as I explain, Palestinian activists consider it genocidal intent when Israeli politicians talk of destroying Palestine, so I use their own standard. It may be that people who use this phrase do not intend destruction of Israel, but they are using a phrase which was created explicitly to call for the destruction of Israel. I don’t accept that there is any good faith way to claim the term has been “reclaimed.” If I say “heil Hitler,” and follow it up with “but no genocide or any of the bad stuff Hitler did,” it doesn’t erase the first part of my sentence. In fact, the second part is antithetical to the first.

    And the phrase “bless you” was created with the intent to banish demons out of your nose, but we still say it.

    “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”, is what they chant. Calling that genocidal is Orwellian mate. Get a grip.

    And the phrase “bless you” was created with the intent to banish demons out of your nose, but we still say it when you sneeze.

    Bad example. The intent was good and it remains good.

    “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”, is what they chant. Calling that genocidal is Orwellian, mate. Get a grip.

    Many do not. Many drop the second part entirely. For example, the t-shirt on the girl in this very video that we are discussing. Either way, adding a nice phrase to the end of a genocidal phrase doesn’t make the genocide part less bad.

    Accusation reversal. “The genocidees would be genociders if the role were reversed” aka “they deserved it”.

    How does it feel being a genocide apologist?

    Do you support the rape and murder of innocent Jews? Rape and murder is always bad, and I think your defense of atrocities because they’re committed by your “side” is abhorrent.
    I don’t know. How does it feel to be a genocide apologist?

    Like those babies who got raped on the 7th of october, according to the genociders?

    Piece of shit.

    Whataboutism re baby rape is next level evil.
    whatever simp. Arabs eat babies for breakfast you know that
    It’s not a bad example, and I credit you with the intelligence to understand the principle the example is driving at, which you are choosing to ignore, that is: meanings change.
    Do you really believe that girl made that t-shirt with genocidal intent? Do you think she wants Israelis wiped out?
    Yea Israel is genociding the palestinians, not the other way around. Quit being a negationist