IcytreesIf a nazi walks into a bar and everyone else leaves, it becomes a nazi bar.
Lvxferre [he/him]The “Nazi bar” analogy is good, as long as it’s properly used: “if there’s someone in charge, demand them to kick the Nazi out. Otherwise the Nazi will eventually multiply in that place, and kick everyone else out”.
Same deal with the German saying @[email protected] mentioned (if you have a Nazi at a table and 10 other people eating and drinking with him, you have 11 Nazis): “it’s part of your duty to not play along with the Nazi, and failure to perform this duty means condoning their actions”.
I agree with that last quote.
But what I’m noticing is a reducing of the original saying to mean any place with a nazi is a nazi bar, and therefore contaminated. Taking back online and IRL communities from nazis involves sharing space and occasionally having a dialogue.
If someone has a close relationship with a nazi, to the point where they think they can change their mind, it’s their duty to try. Otherwise the nazi is only going to hang out with other nazis and become more of a shit head.
In the end I think we all agree there should be fewer nazis, but maybe we disagree on how to do that.
Taking back online and IRL communities from nazis involves sharing space and occasionally having a dialogue.
Both things are a lot like trying to play chess with a pigeon; the pigeon won’t follow the rules of the game, at most it’ll shit on the board.
The Nazi are only willing to share a space as long as they can’t kick you out, due to lack of power. But once they do it, the discourse flips from “everyone should have a voice” (implied: “we Nazi should have a voice”) to “fuck off with your degenerate shit, you don’t belong here”. And Nazi are known for using shitty rhetoric to enforce their views*, to the point a rational dialogue is impossible.
That does not imply we should simply ignore people who are adjacent to the Nazi; or sometimes reproducing bits of Nazi discourse without realising it. It’s often worth to try to pull them back, before they fall into that hole. That teen leaning into inceldom, that grandpa who’s fine with most marginalised groups except “that one”, so goes on.
In the end I think we all agree there should be fewer nazis, but maybe we disagree on how to do that.
Pretty much.
*here’s a list of videos about this, that I heavily recommend.
The Alt-Right Playbook: Introduction
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