🇺🇦 haxadecimal 🚫👑Mar 11
For no particular reason, I am feeling nostalgic for Turbo Pascal.
Show thread🇺🇦 haxadecimal 🚫👑Mar 11
I'm also feeling nostalgic for MPW Pascal, and the Macintosh Programmer's Workshop in general.
I was sad when Apple ditched Pascal for C.
Pascal was not perfect, by any means. I've programmed professionally in Ada, one of Pascal's successors, and liked it pretty well.
I wanted to use Modula 3, "an elegant weapon for a more civilized age," and dabbled in it a little, but there was no market for it.
Show thread🇺🇦 haxadecimal 🚫👑Mar 11
People sometimes ask what my favorite programming language is. Probably Smalltalk, except that I prefer strong typing, and Smalltalk wants to be its own world, like FORTH, rather than being used to create "native" applications. I usually reply that I have no favorite, because all programming languages suck. Some suck less than others.
Show thread🇺🇦 haxadecimal 🚫👑Mar 11
C was OK as a systems programming language for the PDP-11 in the 1970s. The minimalism that was absolutely _required_ for that has not been a benefit to good software design practices since the mid-1980s.
As the late, great C.A.R. Hoare said of ALGOL 60, "Here is a language so far ahead of its time that it was not only an improvement on its predecessors but also on nearly all its successors."
Show thread🇺🇦 haxadecimal 🚫👑Mar 11
When I tell people that I have no favorite programming language, inevitably their next question is what programming languages do I use.
"Mostly C and C++, and some Python. Various others rarely as needed."
Then I'm asked why, especially since I consider C to be terrible.
"The customer is always right."
Show threadGiles GoatMar 11
@brouhaha "Then I'm asked why, especially since I consider C to be terrible." .... BLASPHEMY ! 😎 Well ok it's not as good as C++ but how can you call C "terrible" !?
Show thread🇺🇦 haxadecimal 🚫👑Mar 11

@gilesgoat
#1 reason: very weak typing without runtime checking

C++ is worse than C! By being an almost-superset of C, it has all of the deficiencies of C, and adds many new ones of its own!

I will, however, admit that modern C++ does make it more practical to avoid the C pitfalls. Unfortunately it can't actually prevent them. The onus is in the programmer to know what to avoid. That's a crock.

Show threadGiles GoatMar 11
@brouhaha .. and yet I think 'those may be reasons to love C too' ... I am getting emotional here 😊
Show thread🇺🇦 haxadecimal 🚫👑Mar 11

@gilesgoat
C is a good language for a very limited problem domain. The problem is that it gets used for nearly everything, and mostly far outside that limited domain.

C combines some of the power of assembly language with almost all of the danger of assembly language.

Show threadTim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPEMar 11
@brouhaha @gilesgoat Are there still people using C? - I haven't had to touch it for decades.
Show thread🇺🇦 haxadecimal 🚫👑Mar 11
@TimWardCam @gilesgoat
Most of the C I'm paid to write is for microcontrollers, either on bare metal, or with a small RTOS like FreeRTOS or Zephyr. Most software I'm paid to write for host computers is in C++ or Python.
Show threadGiles GoatMar 11
@brouhaha @TimWardCam We have a multi-platform game engine that does graphics, audio, controllers, logic and anything needed that started in C then evolved into C++ , it works as a charm for that kind of application 🥰
Show threadTim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPEMar 11
@gilesgoat @brouhaha Sure, that was a natural evolution back in the day when Java was so slow that it could only really be considered a serious challenger to Visual Basic.
Show threadGiles GoatMar 11
@TimWardCam @brouhaha My very first ATTEMPT at C believe it or not, was with HiSOFTC ON *TAPE* for ZX Spectrum .. I could NOT compile "Hello World" 😅 My second 'serious' attempt was with Metacomco C on Microdrives on Sinclair QL .. I did something .. FINALLY someone ported C68 for QL on Floppies there I finally started to learn C. Finally my first real paid job we were using C on Motorola 68030/20 machines and I did use it sometime on Vax/VMS .. it all went C since 🙂
Show threadGiles GoatMar 11
@TimWardCam @brouhaha Ah I should said "quite a big part of my job" was to port/write device drivers for various HW .. you may see why I love C that much 🙂
Show thread🇺🇦 haxadecimal 🚫👑Mar 11
@gilesgoat @TimWardCam
Yes, I've been heavily involved in device drivers and network protocol stacks. C because it was the supported language, and what the customer wanted, not because it was the best language in any.general sense.
Show threadTim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPEMar 11

@brouhaha @gilesgoat The customer or employer always gets what they want.

Unless it's FORTRAN, which I removed from my CV so that agents would stop phoning me about FORTRAN gigs, or Perl, which I always make clear at interview time that I will absolutely refuse to attempt to read, let alone write.

Show threadGiles GoatMar 11
@TimWardCam @brouhaha Ok "just to say a bit of madness that got into me once" .. once I did open a book .. and my eyes went 😱 😱 😱 ... "I got the thing" as I MUST DO/KNOW something about it .. long story made short I *EVEN* managed to program by hand a whole character set BY HAND for VT220 and modify AND RUN a CP/M version of .. .. APL80 .. yes .. APL .. I remember managing to do a few things .. surprisingly that Z80 version was 'quite fast' .. but yeah "language for Egyptians" 😂 😂
Show threadTim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE
@gilesgoat @brouhaha Nobody ever asked me to do APL so the opportunity to refuse never arose!
Mar 11 at 11:16pmWeb