GlyphMar 8
I would never describe myself as a "capitalist" but I do kinda understand the structure and function of markets a little bit, and it's sometimes frustrating chatting with leftists whose entire experience of markets has been watching the enormous trash-fire of post-2008 dysfunctional crime-based capitalism destroy the possibility of them ever owning a home. Like if you really liked trains but lived in a town where 3/4 of the population had been killed by a chemical supply train derailment
Show threadGlyphMar 8

"We should have better public transit!"

"Transit, what do you mean?"

"Like… you know… trains"

"Trains? Those machines that kill your entire family in wracking pain with clouds of poison from a realm beyond nightmares? Why do you want more of those?"

"Yeah but not like that"

Show threadGlyphMar 8
hard to ask someone whose whole body is covered in chemical burn scars to just imagine, for a moment, a train carrying a *different* thing, like maybe some people going to have a good time at a restaurant downtown, instead of the caustic hellfire that they see every time they close their eyes
Show threadGlyphMar 8
and yet… the fact remains… this town really _could_ use a subway
Show threadiweinMar 8

@glyph it's a good analogy, and in this analogy, regulating poison trains is much more important than introducing public transport.

Markets can be a useful tool in some circumstances. But capitalism is about _free_ markets, and markets _free from guardrails_ are like unregulated railroads: killing machines.

That's why I think it's not useful to discuss details of markets without first establishing external ethical boundaries.

That's why I think traumatized lefties are rightly #antiCapitalist

Show threadIan.BurnetteMar 8

@iwein @glyph

Fun fact I'm paraphrasing from @pluralistic, Free market originally meant "free from distorting external interference" (like that of lords/kings)

Having safeguard regulations to prevent oligarchs from rigging markets so that heads they win, tails you lose is actually delivering "free markets" as they were originally described.

Show threadiwein

@ianburnette
Yeah, I know, and that old framing was as disingenuous as the current framing is imho 🙂

Markets are an interesting way to gamify setting a value for something if other options are risky or complicated.

The way they have been historically used primarily to defend and acquire unethical property are disgusting.

@glyph @pluralistic

Mar 8 at 6:00pmWeb