ComradeSharkfuckersubtlety my ass
ummthatguyYes. Subtle, nuanced, and in no way obvious.
macniel
Encrypt-KeeperI am not an anti-woke person in the slightest, and I wouldn’t say Star Trek was ever subtle about its leftist ideals.
But it did use to present us with a more optimistic view of the future of humanity that was largely beyond the petty dramas we have today, while still leaving room for the fact that no matter how much you’ve progressed, you do always have to fight to keep the ideals and society you’ve built. Allegories for modern problems were largely relegated to interactions with humanlike alien species so that the theme of humanity itself being “better than it was” is left intact.
And it did lose a little something when the Alex Kurtzman era came along and took the federation and humanity back to the stupid ages in order to get the point across.
The scene in Picard where you have a character living in what looks like poverty despite it being a post-scarcity age, and trying to draw parallels between her and Picard, and the different classes we have today, because she lived in a trailer and he owned a vineyard, was just next-level misunderstanding the source material. Hello they don’t have capitalism, there’s no money. It was long established by this point that humans excel due to their drive to achieve, not command a salary.
It does feel like Star Trek used to be woke, but was a story from the mouths of people who had something to say, to now it’s woke, but in a very icky corporate-sterilized kinda way.
Yep. Good analysis. Probably why I haven’t been able to get along with much of the Kurtzman era Trek. I’ve started Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks and find those two to be actually watchable, but Discovery and Picard I noped out of pretty hard after around a season each, and have no desire to even start Academy.
I will die on the hill that Lower Decks is not only the only nu-trek that is actual Star Trek, but that it actually belongs up there with the actual legacy Trek shows it parodies. And it’s got plenty of gay woke stuff in it. But despite being a parody, and forgiving the very rough first season (It’s ST, hello), it’s obviously that the writers actually understand what Star Trek is.
I fear a lot of people will write it off as “Star Trek does Rick & Morty” and it’s a shame. It has a TAMARIAN bridge officer for gods sake.
CyberEggLower Decks relies a little too much on nostalgia and the supposed parody of older shows, and the parody often comes off as memberberries.
Lower Decks is like a love letter to Star Trek and manages to be good Trek on its own. But yeah it is derivative and nostalgic as part of its blueprint . You need the context of the existing shows for it to be as good as it is, but I can’t really discount it for that.
and manages to be good Trek on its own.
No, I don’t actually think that. While there are some gags that work on their own (like the play on prejudice with the Ferengi), there are so many more “remember that thing from TOS, TNG, TAS, etc? Here, have it again!” (like that giant spock skeleton or the Landru-episode or when Rutherford builds a Delta Flyer). And I don’t quite like that.
Contrast that with Prodigy (why does that one get to be forgotten so often though? It is really good). Janeway returns as an Emergency Command Hologram, which is a callback both to Janeway and Voyager in general and to the episode about The Doctor, when he wanted to exoand his role and als become an ECH. But they told new stories with the Janeway ECH and made her a new character of her own. Same with Chakotay, who appears later as himself (not a hologramnor some other form of copy). The same character, but new story and developement (both Janeway and Chakotay get more character developement here then in all of Voyager). Then they got Wesley Crusher back, but instead of just rehashing the annoying teenager they explore his Traveler role.
Instead of pointing at things from past shows saying “See, you liked that, didn’t you? We got that here, too!”, Prodigy expanded these characters and explored new stories. And it did that well.
Lower Decks did that, too, sometimes. Sometimes LD did make fun of older trek, saying how dumb something was, ok. But mostly the references were mere easter eggs that were there for nostalgia bait.
Lower Decks actually added to the Star Trek universe in real ways. The whole idea of Second Contact vessels, Klingon non-noble culture, Ferengi TV, the Ferengi joining the Federation, Orion culture, etc. It wasn’t only references or derivative at all.
I didn’t say it added nothing. I explicitely said there is good stuff. What I do say though is that there is too much memberberries and too little new stuff.
It’s a fair criticism. I am just more tolerant of the nostalgia bait, I guess, so it’s difficult for me to see how much it would put many other people off.
“Memberberries” 😂 What’s that mean? I don’t want to search it bc I’d rather hear from someone who actually uses this new word I’ve never heard 💜
It’s from a Southpark epidode called “Member Berries” where they are sentient, talking berries constantly reminding people of glory past by asking “Member? Member X?”
Usually, they are remembering pop culture icons (mostly the OT Star Wars) but also political/societal things like Ronald Reagan, when “marriage was only between men and women” or “when there were no mexicans.”
By their behaviour they are constantly evoking nostalgia and because of that they’ve kinda become their own pop culture icon as a meme to describe nostalgia bait in pop culture media
It’s a good Southpark episode, I recommend giving it a watch.
Also: Memberberries supercut
South Park - All Member Berries Scenes
An optimistic view of the future read a lot more feasible in both the TOS and TNG eras than it does now.
A more optimistic view of the future during the…height of the Cold War? The show that released a few short years after the Berlin Wall went up, and the Cuban Missle Crisis?
I just don’t know about that.
Yes. A show that aired at a point in time where your dad rode a horse to work and you watch people taking rockets into space didn’t have to reach too hard to think fantastic things were in store for humanity.
My man this was a point in time more so than any other that people genuinely didn’t think there was going to be a future for humanity to have lol.
No, it wasn’t.
Ye,s it was. Maybe you should talk to your parents and/or grandparents about this. Mine lived and grew up in what then was West Germany. When my parents talk about the nuclear drills at school, the fear still returns to their eyes and they gaze into nothingness. When my grandparents talk about the air raid siren tests the trembling in their voices is heartbreaking.
That shit was real and terrifying. And I personally think this constant, everoresent fear was what made stories about an optimistic future such a success.
That shit was real and terrifying. And I personally think this constant, everoresent fear was what made stories about an optimistic future such a success.
They think it’s only woke now because they’re only looking for it now.
Previously, it all flew right over their heads.
I think the difference between most of the older trek and the newer stuff is that while they did obvious stuff like this, the most impactful social stuff they did was treat revolutionary change as boring.
TOS had a black woman bridge officer, and they didn’t make a big deal about it, because in the future there was nothing remarkable about it.
This is a really good point but I feel there is a double edged sword here. Loads of old school bigoted nerds love star trek because for whatever reason they actually don’t pick up on the compassionate, far left messaging.
It was also different when 50 years ago, a black woman as bridge officer was scandal to right wing sensationalist media.
The overt and sometimes performative progressive details that are present now push the boundaries in a similar manner to the old boring change, while being much more noticeable to the rest of the audience.
Lots of the new trek is really not woke enough! We are in a utopia, what is all that dystopian shit doing in the stories?!
SpaceCowboyYeah Star Trek is being written by idiots that don’t understand how to write Star Trek. The message used to be that the social issues we have today would be alien to a future utopian society. It was the aliens had all of these social issues, but the protagonaists have moved past those issues and have to be reminded that humans had these problems in the past. It says we should stop being weird about shit so we can have cool starships.
Now it seems the future utopian society later decides they want to go back to being racist assholes again. I think the writers may have good intentions, but carelessly made a very depressing statement about how these problems will always come back and can never be overcome permanently.