Mastodawn

Andrea Pappacoda Mar 6

Fabio Manganiello

Each dot in this picture is a Nazi-fascist massacre in Italy that happened between 1943 and 1945.

This is the result of a project that lasted years, summarized by the Atlante delle Stragi Nazifasciste https://www.straginazifasciste.it/

6000 of them, the whole peninsula is covered in red. Almost every village from Naples to Bozen has at least a monument to keep the memory of the massacred alive.

Note that this doesn’t include battlefield or other warfare acts. Only acts of violence against the civilian population. Which resulted in more than 24,000 deaths in two years. More than 33 civilians killed every day.

This is the memory that is worth keeping alive now that the world is again sleepwalking towards those horrors.

This is why even a bulwark of liberalism like Popper said that freedom of speech and action doesn’t apply to fascists.

This is why grandsons of partisans keep repeating that the only good fascist is a dead one, and that violence against them should not only be tolerated but encouraged.

This is why we keep repeating that you can’t just talk or vote fascism out - it never leaves without a lot of blood.

And then those filthy pigs also dare to play the part of the victims when we invoke violence against them.

And then they keep repeating stale (and utterly false) refrains like “but Mussolini also did some good things”.

Orrock LXXXVI XLVII Feb 27

@fabio I’m reading two books about the massacre outside of Rome

Orrock LXXXVI XLVII Feb 28

@fabio Also the 1946 novel All Thy Conquests by Alfred Hayes (who also wrote the poem “I Dreamed I Saw Joe Hill”.) He stayed in Italy after the war and was deeply involved in Italian neorealist films, including The Bicycle Thief. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Hayes_(writer)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Hill_(song)

Jürgen Hubert Feb 27

I have a lot of respect for the Italian partisans. They mounted an effective resistance, and even managed to bring Mussolini to justice.

Meanwhile, in Germany, Hitler had to kill himself because no other German was up to the task.

Pteryx the Puzzle Secretary Feb 27

@juergen_hubert @fabio
Here in the US, between how much security exists around the President and the fact that clearly our impeachment process *doesn't work*, we've been left having to hope that 1) Trump dies of old age and 2) the whole thing is enough of a cult of personality that this matters...

@juergen_hubert @fabio Maybe Hitler treated non-Jew and non-opposing German civilians slightly better ?

Mussolini, with the Fasci Italiani di Combattimento, would confiscate every crop farmers would produce, even hidden stocks. Violence was there against every non-complying group from the beginning. And I believe that is ultimately what led the resistance.

Jürgen Hubert Mar 1

There was no shortage of political prisoners in German concentration camps, even at the start.

Especially at the start.

@juergen_hubert @fabio
This is clear. However the authority to put someone in camps comes from a position of executive power.
The black shirts were a violent squad intimidating socialists and oppositors since before Mussolini even entered the Parliament as elected member.
These militias were beating up anyone coming their way and they had close ties with the police.

I guess maybe Germany didn't experience the widespread climate of terror the fascist generated from the beginning.

Jürgen Hubert Mar 1

Let me tell you about the Sturmabteilung.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung

Sturmabteilung - Wikipedia

thornsinnercircle Feb 27

@fabio nelle isole molto meno. Vorrei capire come mai.

Orrock LXXXVI XLVII Feb 27

@fabio The Order Has Been Carried Out, Death in Rome, The Pope and Mussolini;

Violet Madder Feb 27

The population of Italy then was roughly 45 million, the USA now is around 350 million, almost 8x bigger.

So that would be 257 people per day here. 183k over 2 years. Napkin / Wikipedia math.

Like ICE 200x. The budget and weapons are in reach stuff fit for the world's 5th biggest army, they just need to ramp up the staffing, and what's going to stop them no seriously something has to stop them.

It's starting to get close enough that even relatively comfortable people here can almost begin to conceptualize it. Less abstract every day.

How long until subscribing to your favorite independent news or running certain internet searches or complaining on your social media gets used as evidence of terrorist affiliations? There are people itching for that data for all the reasons we used to fear, where did those concerns go why are we standing around watching the wave build?

@fabio pronipote del "Beta" e del "Biondino". Quest'ultimo nei suoi ultimi anni si è impegnato per non far dimenticare una di quelle avvenutr nel suo paese. Sottoscrivo ogni parola di quello che hai scritto

Mare Kranjc Feb 27

@fabio This is Slovenia. Each dot marks a mass murder site where communist partisans murdered class enemies after 1945. They have also been discovered in other republics of the former Yugoslavia. They were discovered after 1991, when Slovenia gained independence. There are more than 600 such murder sites in Slovenia alone.

grindhold Feb 27

@fabio why is there such a discrepancy between the south and the north of an imaginary line drawn between Napoli and Taranto? Seems like the north of that line had it significantly much worse.

Steveg58 Feb 27

@grindhold @fabio
The Germans didn't move into Italy until after the Italians surrendered in mid 1943 after the Allied invasion of Sicily.

@Steveg58 @grindhold @fabio yeah the stated date range is important, and that line is less imaginary as it is one of blood and steel

Fabio Manganiello Feb 27

@grindhold the Allies disembarked in Sicily on July 10th 1943 and gradually liberated Southern Italy (and Naples actually liberated itself on the famous “Quattro Giornate” in September 1943; my grandpa was there).

So after the summer of 1943 the fascists were basically pushed gradually up north. Mussolini declared his “social republic” experiment in Salò (on the lake of Garda), denying the authority of the new government led by Badoglio (the parallels with January 6th in America are chilling), while the liberated south sided with the Allies.

In Italy we often joke that we’re the only country that managed to neither win nor lose a war but ended it with a draw.

ChookMother 🇦🇺🦘Feb 27

@fabio "Covered in red" depends on the size of the dots relative to the map. (Not downplaying the number of massacres.)

Riley S. Faelan Feb 27

@fabio There's dots on this picture???

Captain Jack Sparrow Feb 27

That is tragic, at least the nazis were defeated, eventually. (for the time being anyway)

Gaza has had at least 70,000 civilian deaths (MSF say more like 200,000) over 2 years, and the genocide is still being committed, by israel.

It just shows that fascists regimes still exist, and can happen anywhere, if they are ignored and politicians turn the other cheek.

gkrnours Feb 27

@fabio I wish french memory was that good.

decapitae Feb 27

@fabio Do not suffer nazis

Davide_Sandini Feb 27

@fabio
My grand-grand father was within the victims, but I' m almost sure his killing was not even counted.
26 april 1945, one day after the official end of war in Italy.

InternetDev-Anti-Communicant🍉Feb 28

Comme en France ou cette chiasse de Macron , et Sarkozy ont prétendu que le Maréchal Pétain avait été n grand soldat dans la 1ère guerre mondiale

Sauf qu'il a été condamné d'une peine d'indignité nationale , ce qui lui a retiré ses titres (il ne peut pas être qualifié de Maréchal)

Tout pue, et sa ressemble vachement à une coordination internationale, pas seulement occidentale.

Angelina Feb 28

@InternetDev @fabio Pétain a quand même eu un mérite durant la Grande Guerre, c'est qu'il est le premier général à avoir cessé cette stratégie absurde de l'offensive à outrance et à s'être montré proche de ses soldats. C'est ce qui lui a donné une si grande popularité durant l'entre-guerre.

InternetDev-Anti-Communicant🍉Feb 28

@Angelina @fabio

Ceux qui ont eut du mérite pendant les guerres ce sont ceux qui étaient dans les putains de tranchées.

Et contrairement à ce que dit Macron , on ne peut pas être un "grand" Soldat quand on a collaboré à une guerre d'extermination.

Là vous me faites le narratif pété de Macron... qui oublie que Pétain a été condamné à une peine d'indignité nationale. Il n'est plus qualifiable de "Maréchal".

De Gaulle est respecté parce qu'il a su dire non quand il le fallait, pas Petain

InternetDev-Anti-Communicant🍉Mar 1

@Angelina @fabio

un "grand" soldat c'est celui qui, même non-gradé, prend des risques contre lui-même, pour une idée plus grande que sa condition.

Ce n'est pas qu'un bon tacticien qui respecte des ordres parfois immondes

Et c'est De Gaulle qui a misé sur les chars dans la 1ère guerre mondiale, c'est ce qui a mis fin aux interminables guerre de tranchées.

Angelina Feb 28

@fabio You can say what you want, but in Sicilian Mafia, we are not Nazi. 😊

Stoneface Vimes Mar 1

@fabio quite so. "Magda Goebbels made really good strudel"