lcamtuf 
If you ask AI to rewrite the entirety of an open-source program, do you still need to abide by the original license? In philosophy, this problem is known as the Slop of Theseus
Kevin Riggle@lcamtuf actual answer: of course you do, it’s prima facie a derivative work, same as if you had rewritten the program by hand.
Ben Galehouse
Tom BortelsAssuming you used the original source code to derive the detailed spec, then yes, that too is a derivative work.
The "viral" nature of that sort of license has bothered me for a long time. It's always been simultaneously overly far reaching and impossible to realistically enforce.
But here's an interesting question:
If you do not execute the code - did you accept the license? Does simply reading it sufficiently to be able to write a spec bind you to that license? That seems a bit too much.
ArneBab@tbortels if you do not accept the license, you do not have any right to use the code. It’s "all rights reserved" then. @lcamtuf @bgalehouse @kevinr
@ArneBab @tbortels @lcamtuf @bgalehouse
Yeah the license applies whether you accept it or not. And whether your spec counts as a derivative work or not will depend greatly on the details of your spec
@kevinr @bgalehouse @lcamtuf @ArneBab
It explicitly does not. If I don't accept the license, normal copyright applies. You don't get to make a legally binding contract without consent, "clickwrap" bullshit aside.
And normal copyright has carve-outs like fair use.
@ArneBab @lcamtuf @kevinr @bgalehouse
We entered a gray zone about 8 off-ramps ago. Copyright never anticipated self-replicating code on computers and viral licenses and clean-room re-implementations and AIs.
As for income - I've lost track of the original driver, but it's GPL'd free code, no?
I like fair use. It and parody are one of the very few things keeping us out of peasants-with-pitchforks-and-torches mode. If you eliminate those carve-outs, the whole system goes down.
@tbortels GPL’d means that you can generate income as long as you adhere to the license (⇒ keep changes free, too).
If you want to wiggle out of that requirement with a re-implementation, that’s where you enter the gray area, because if it is a violation of the GPL, then the permissions the GPL granted you no longer apply and you have to check against regular "all rights reserved".
@tbortels fair use is always risky, because it only gives you conditional rights: if you take something via the fair use exception, you cannot use the result in any circumstance that would not be considered fair use, too.
At least that’s my understanding of copyright and fair use. Differences between copyright in different countries adds a whole additional layer to that (there is no fair use in the EU, but there are "limitations and exceptions to copyright").
@lcamtuf @kevinr @bgalehouse
@tbortels for parody there was the famous lawsuit of Erdogan vs. Böhmermann about the goat fucker poem where Böhmermann won (because of context and maybe also because the lawsuit of Erdogan provided the context which made the poem legal), but it is illegal to publish that poem outside of the context of the show (that explained which kinds of works actually are illegal and used that as an example), and the show cannot be published again, because context changed now.
@lcamtuf @kevinr @bgalehouse
@lcamtuf @kevinr @bgalehouse
@tbortels The show with the poem ended with the legendary song that was later republished independently:
https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=HMQkV5cTuoY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMQkV5cTuoY