Tom RitterMar 5

I've been seeing a lot of comments online about how browser telemetry is just a way to spy on users and we never actually use it, and it provides no value.

We can debate whether you think someone (Firefox or otherwise) overcollects telemetry, or doesn't collect it in a privacy-preserving enough way. And you should be able to turn it all off, for any reason.

But it's been instrumental for me, personally, to ship multiple security improvements to Firefox - and I'm just one of hundreds of developers. I wrote up some more here: https://ritter.vg/blog-telemetry.html

telemetry helps. you still get to turn it off - ritter.vg

Tom Ritter's personal homepage, where he rambles about tech-related topics.

Show threadCassandrichMar 5

@tomrittervg It doesn't matter how useful you think it is. It's still unethical and wrong.

I could go through your examples of "Concrete wins from Firefox Telemetry" one by one and detail how each should and could have happened just as smoothly without telemetry, using normal, ethical means like paid QA, voluntary reporting by power-user early-adopters, etc.

But I think this misses the point. You don't get to decide that having telemetry on-by-default (even with an way to opt-out) is acceptable just because you think you think it produced immensely beneficial results.

Show threadwyattMar 5
@dalias @tomrittervg the telemetry has also been used as an excuse for removing functionality (e.g., pure ALSA audio support), ignoring that those most likely to have telemetry off are those that are smart or technical enough to remove pulseaudio
Show threadCassandrichMar 5
@wyatt @tomrittervg Yes, this is a really important point that's often overlooked. Telemetry harms EVEN FOLKS WHO TURNED IT OFF by prioritizing the measured wants/needs of users who left it on over theirs.
Show threadwyattMar 5
@dalias @tomrittervg in the bugzilla page i'm remembering users explicitly were blamed for having turned it off (things like "if you want your voice to be heard leave it on")
Show threadCassandrich
@wyatt @tomrittervg Was "what sound backend you're using" even ever documented as part of what the telemetry was spying on? How were users supposed to know that?
Mar 5 at 4:18pmWeb
Show threadwyattMar 5
@dalias @tomrittervg even if they were told it's like saying "the demolition plans for your house were on display in your local planning office for the last nine months" while in fact: 1: no one goes to the local planning office on a whim. 2: The plans were on display in the cellar, with the lights out, stuck in a locked filing cabinet in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying "beware the leopard."
Show threadwyattMar 5
@dalias @tomrittervg https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1345661
the funny thing:
> "I knew it would be an unpopular decision. However I'm a big believer in focusing our efforts. Pulse Audio and ALSA are a duplication of effort because they run on the same hardware and operating system. ALSA was costly to maintain and the time we save can be better spent elsewhere. If people file bugs against Pulse Audio then we could fix them."
But if you support alsa you also support pulseaudio systems for free, whereas the other way around you just disenfranchise people
1345661 - PulseAudio requirement breaks Firefox on ALSA-only systems

RESOLVED (nobody) in Core - Audio/Video: Playback. Last updated 2023-04-01.

Show threadwyattMar 5
@dalias @tomrittervg
found it
> "Telemetry informs our decisions. Turning it off is not without disadvantage."