Can we create and use social networking algorithms on the Fediverse that serve our own personal goals, such as more and deeper personal relationships, career advancement, and more participative citizenship?
@evan [Yes, but…] I'm coming at it with a pipe-dream in which messages are arranged in 2D – imagine a projection of a celestial system, each message a celestial body, with messages "orbited" by messages that refer (i.e. reply) to them – and each person kind of charts their own "social course" though this system as they read / write.
Pretty sure such an arrangement would need an algorithm to even get started.
@evan yes, but... who is "we"?
If I want to write a client that reshuffles 24h of posts from my feed for some purpose I desire, I can't see why that isn't OK. We the individual users.
If my instance imposes nontransparent, complicated, algorithms not under user control..... well that's unacceptable. We the software designers and operators.
@evan I said Yes instead of "Yes, but..." because the but is essentially "you should probably understand what the algorithm does and you need to be responsible for any effects of using it, including on others"...
But to me that's like "Should you be alive?" with an answer of "Yes, but you should obey the golden rule" which is really "Yes".
@evan I want algorithm like old school art platform features+its algorithm (DeviantArt, Pixiv, etc).
Sort by newest or popularity are never a viable solution for art community.
I remember seeing my DeviantArt feed, and discovering sketch, photography, cosplay, calligraphy, origami, in one place. Some recommendations are literally 8 years old post.
Without that system, art community will turn into trend chasing, maximalizing for engagement instead of personal uniqueness. This already happens on Twitter, Bluesky, and Instagram.
Even if Pixelfed had the algorithm, it is not a solution, as it was never meant to accomodate variation of post like proper art platform.
iWantToBelieve.jpg
Why don’t use game approach?
Yes, but there would be a lot of Fedi Drama and this service with algorithms would be blocked by a lot of people before it launches.
Yes but as long as it's entirely transparent to the user, and ideally controlled by them - maybe something like "more/less" sliders for certain criteria. I'm not sure how those criteria would be determined, though.
@evan yes, let's go! I've been waiting for this for a long time.
I'm glad to see a reasonable proportion of people choosing "yes" in this poll, I thought the Fediverse was more closed to the idea than this.
@evan This is such a good question that I've been unable to answer because I just don't know. I'm not a very good social media user so probably unqualified to judge. But I think the answer might be "Yes but only if you have the technical skills to reason about and customize an 'algorithm'" and then I think about what my personal social goals are, and that answer starts to feel like "no."
But maybe there's some way to make this both approachable without deep education in the topic AND safe?!
@evan didn't realise this would be controversial until the poll closed and I saw the results.
I work with search and recommendation so the answer is clear to me - the only problem with algorithms is when other people control them.
As social media users we all apply algorithms by selectively directing our attention. Automating that, with blocks, filters, or a more complicated algorithm is purely empowering, as long as we are the ones in control.
I use lists heavily so I can decide which themes im reading about today. I'd love to have a version of that based on automatic topic tags - as long as I'm the one controlling it. That's the difference.
@LyallMorrison I listened to this incredible podcast episode with Ezra Klein, @pluralistic and Tim Wu.
One of the numbers that came up during the conversation was that, with algorithmic feeds, only SEVEN PERCENT (7%) of what people see on Instagram is from people they follow. Seven!
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/13/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-doctorow-wu.html
@evan
@LyallMorrison @pluralistic
But they also claim they can't switch to the fediverse because nobody they follow is here 🙄
@KentNavalesi @evan @LyallMorrison @pluralistic
Of course. That's the big lie that's built into that dopamine jacking, cognitive capture. Someone Else's Algorithm has manipulated them into valuing the parasocial influencer connection over what they actually chose to relate to themselves, but that's a powerful drug. They literally feel grief if they lose the daily dose, not realizing they've already lost the actually meaningful connection they *wanted* once.
@johannab @evan @LyallMorrison @pluralistic
I feel ilke I missed some major cultural shift where it became normal to mindlessly consume whatever an algorithm feeds you. I just can't understand how people don't feel manipulated, especially considering all we know about actual, proven manipulation 
I also can't understand why a platform that gives you complete control isn't inherently more interesting than one that doesn't. It's disappointing to see so much complacency.
"Social media" hadn't even entered the lexicon when the fraud and manipulation mind games began to spread online.
We are, on the whole, squishy, leaky, flawed organic systems whose processes run on slightly electrified soup. We don't work well, particularly not as isolated units away from our collective which works to stabilize our weak spots as we shore up the gaps in others' functions.
The worst of us are smart enough to understand that and broken enough to exploit it.
By choice or by circumstance out of our control, we've ended up replacing our psychologically necessary contact with others with sedentary working time in front of screens, which give us a single dimensional proxy for the contact we're missing, and because we don't get all those other aspects needed - we "fill them in" by accepting online advertising as meeting our material needs, and "influencers" or fandoms as relationships.
Those *work* because they're easier for an isolated human to cope with. Like take-out burgers at the drive through in place of a healthy homemade meal with tomatoes you grew in your own patio pots.
But it's not as simple as to be fixed by just deriding someone for eating fast-food takeout. The world has put a lot of us in positions where we don't get time, resources, or *training* or *support* to look after ourselves better.
The answer isn't "no algorithms" ...
It is outreach and reconnection so people can learn to take ownership and cultivate their own level of literacy.
It takes a hell of a lot of executive function and self-organizational skill to keep my online psyche in order, daily. I flip out about it sometimes and I KNOW how to manage myself.
I also existed as a mostly-functional almost-adult prior to exposure to the internet. People only a few years younger that I never learned a disconnected existence.
Like trying to teach a fish to breath air, or something like that, no? People are literally unaware that there IS an algorithm, because it has never not shaped everything they interact with. Or, maybe they're older, but Facebook made their lives so much easier, no more writing mountains of holiday or birthday cards, organizing family gatherings or planning trips with your friends a couple times a year. Just pry yourself off the chat groups long enough for a holiday zoom.
TL;DR - it's the dopamine hit.
Human brains are hackable. They ARE unaware, the same way someone in an unhappy relationship or a lousy run-down housing situation can complain about it all the time but still feel like they have no other option. They've resolved their cognitive dissonance by constructing a "can't do better anywhere else either" story for themselves. It is thus their perceived reality.
Disinformation works and is hard to counter.
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