oreoreoreMar 4

Society is starting to appropriately accommodate neurodivergence, yet stupid/idiot/crazy/lazy etc. stay in the vocabulary.

https://lemy.lol/post/62017205

Society is starting to appropriately accommodate neurodivergence, yet stupid/idiot/crazy/lazy etc. stay in the vocabulary. - lemy.lol

We have decided some brain quirks are disorders (and get accommodations, as is compassionate), whilst others are flaws (and get slurs). But no one picks their hardware. You cannot earn a better prefrontal cortex or deserve a calmer amygdala. Nor does one get to pick the environment they are born in, which will inform their choices later in life. Even the capacity to “learn better” is a roll of the dice, some brains start the race with sprinting shoes, others with lead weights. So when we call someone stupid, lazy or insane we are not describing a choice, but simply announcing which kinds of unlucky we’ve decided are worthy of scorn.

Show threadetherphonMar 4
I get what you’re saying, but it’s quite difficult when people are constantly doing so many stupid, stupid things.
Show threadCarighan Maconar
Yeah exactly, the mentioned words like ‘stupid’ or ‘lazy’ aren’t exclusive to describing neurodivergency at all. In fact I’d argue that’s a tiny minority of their use.
Mar 4 at 12:31pmWeb
Show threadetherphonMar 4
I think in most cases people are using stupid to describe the action or thing a person is doing and not the person themselves, people are doing stupid stuff all the time, it’s both bad and good of course, because often times the stupid things can be delightful as well. I guess it’s just a part of being human but it’s so very frustrating that we rely on some of those people to vote when they have chose to not take life seriously or think about the consequences for other people.
Show threadoreoreoreMar 4

How do you know? How can you be so certain in your judgment, and declare that another’s “stupidity” or “laziness” is not the shadow of a mind wired differently? Can you see the gears turning askew?

What is stupidity to your mind? What is laziness? If they were born stupid, if they were raised without care, would you fault them? When did Gods descent from heavens and bestow you with the wisdom to always do what is right? Why may not all have this privilege?

If you are wrong, if that “laziness” is exhaustion, that “stupidity” a misfiring synapse: then you’re not just cruel, you are part of the problem.

Show threadTrickDacyMar 4
How can you be even 1% certain that these words are being used to refer to neurodivergent people? You cannot, at all. Not even 1%.
Show threadoreoreoreMar 4

If I am wrong, the result is that everyone gets treated with more kindness.

If you are wrong, people who cannot help themselves get treated with cruelty.

Show threadTrickDacyMar 4

If you are wrong, billions of people police their language for absolutely no reason and have to figure out new ways to express an identical concept. And they will. And this time it might even have worse baggage.

If I am wrong, all humans who ever existed talk wrong, but won’t change for you anyway.

Show threadoreoreoreMar 4

I command not for policing of language. I put forth the request for people to examine if shaming and name calling impacts behavior towards a more desirable outcome.

(Spoilers: It does not)

Show threadTrickDacyMar 4

So you state directly that essentially all insults are hateful toward neuro atypical people, and that’s not policing language?

It’s 100% policing language and basically calling standard insults to be bigotry of some level. Obviously, insults don’t fix anything but they are a basic part of human language. Anything you substitute for them can be compared to someone with a disability of some kind and there is no end to self censorship in the world you are asking for. It literally helps nothing even if you manage to ban these words, and also, you would never be able to manage banning them.

Show threadoreoreoreMar 4

The question is not whether every insult is aimed at the neurodivergent, it is whether we accept that our language, carelessly or maliciously deployed, reinforces a world where those already struggling are further ground beneath contempt.

You assert that policing language is futile, that insults are a “basic part of human language,”. This is the refuge of those who mistake tradition for truth. If language is merely a tool, then let us ask: what does it build? Does it foster understanding, or does it erect walls? Does it invite reflection, or does it demand submission?

You say, “It literally helps nothing even if you manage to ban these words.” But who, pray tell, is asking for bans? I am not advocating for the eradication of words, I am advocating for the examination of their purpose. You are correct that words are ever shifting and changing. Sever the verbal head of one hydra and witness as two new ones emerge. This is precisely the reason for my conviction.

“100% policing language”? It is 100% asking for accountability. If you insist on wielding words as weapons, at least own the carnage. But do not pretend that this reflects anything but a commitment to a cruel world.

Show threadTrickDacyMar 4

carnage

Yikes dude. I hate it when people say to touch grass, but if you think insults rank even 1000th on the list of societal problems, you probably need to…Carnage. I gotta go take a walk just thinking about what it must be like to say that about general, unspecific insults.

Show threadCarighan MaconarMar 4
This begs the question how I’d negatively assert outcomes and efforts if I am not to use negative language to describe it lest it’d be cruel.
Show threadoreoreoreMar 5

You may communicate without violence.

www.cnvc.org

The Center for Nonviolent Communication | Home of NVC - Center for Nonviolent Communication

THE CENTER FOR NONVIOLENT COMMUNICATION When was the last time you experienced being seen and understood? Every day around the world, the Center for Nonviolent ...

Center for Nonviolent Communication
Show threadCarighan MaconarMar 5

Hrm so I searched around that site a bit, and I genuinely cannot find them ever discussing that. Maybe it’s in some of the videos (a very poor choice of design for something that supposedly is about more inclusive communication) but mostly it seems to be seminares and workshops.

But just to ask the general question, I still need to make a negative assessment, yes? I still say “worst”, not “++ungood”. So I would also call something “stupid”, not “unsmart”?

Show threadoreoreoreMar 5

I admit that website is annoying to navigate, and yes a lot of the content is as videos.

www.cnvc.org/learn/nvc-101 Perhaps this.

If you want to read, this covers roughly the same principles: pastebin.com/ZHhS044M

Banning words is not the point. As you said, a word can have many meanings. I am calling for understanding what you yourself want to communicate, and what you want to achieve with that communication. If you truly just want to insult people and that is the goal, then yes. It is indeed most effective to just throw a slur at them.

But if you wish to bring about some good in the world, perhaps learning how you can communicate to someone that their actions are harmful, without putting them on the defensive.

Also, if you wish to call someone stupid because they are behaving like a fool, you need to first understand what their goal was. Perhaps their goal was to be stupid all along, and as such, acting a fool achieves the goal - making their approach smart indeed. But, if someone wants to put out a fire and tries to do so by waving a fan at it, you may tell them that what they are doing is counterproductive.

If you have been hurt, and wish to communicate that to someone to bring about accountability, you can do this without insult too. You can point out the specific action they did, and express how it impacted you. If you tell them they are cruel, idiots, crazy, you can expect as much abuse to come back at you.