ari Mar 1
i was reminded this exists and i'm bored so ask me stuff if u like 📩

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Show threadari Mar 1

What do you think of all the almost open pedophiles(not lolicons) in your oomf social circle? This is not a judgement of you or them.i'm a goofball and only saw the CW at first, so responded poorly. i am not aware of pedophiles in my circles, open or otherwise. i do not at all condone the abuse of minors, and very seriously hope anyone in this position seeks the help they need. bit of a doozy first question, so apologies if my answer is worded awkwardly!

ask.remlit.site/ask/ajb7rwr09psm03gd

😐 asked ari 💫 CW: serious - ask.remlit.site

Show threadskye (evil)Mar 2
@ari what do you think of the distinction between pedophilia as in the attraction and child abuse as in the act, how linked they are, and where the line should be drawn?

also, is there any specific type of help you have in mind that they should seek, and is there a result you want said help to have?
Show threadari Mar 2
@skye my initial answer to this was a bit cludgy; i was pretty caught off-guard by that being the first question i received within minutes of opening my inbox.

pedophilia, sexual attraction to children, is by definition, not necessarily abuse of a child. i still condone neither, and therapy would be my first ask if one felt this attraction. the goal is, as shouldn't need to be underlined, to not have consenting adults sexually attracted to minors, who cannot consent to sex.
Show threadskye (evil)Mar 2
@ari yeah id agree with the fact that it's not necessarily abuse

however um. what if the attraction never ends up being removed even with things like therapy? after all if it's kind of an innate thing it might be hard to remove and may also be weird to suppress

im not necessarily trying to be antagonistic, but i do want to understand what you think, and it's it's hard for me to do that and not feel like i'm seeming antagonistic, so im just gonna ask some things. i understand not wanting to answer them but i would also appreciate your point of view and reasoning on things.

for example um. what exactly does not condoning pedophilia mean for you? would you get pedophiles out of your circles, and would that depend on whether they're trying to get help?

and like. what about them using coping mechanisms like art which helps keep it outside of reality? especially considering there are therapists that do say that's a healthy way to deal with it? do you support or not support using fiction as a coping mechanism, and do you have a reasoning for either?

also, do you have an opinion on the idea of letting people speak more freely about it without stigma as a way to let them have safer communities and hopefully give some harm prevention both to potential victims and to themselves?

sorry if this is too much like an interrogation. im just curious about your opinions, and also about your logic that gets you to those opinions, which i could then take into consideration too
Show threadari Mar 2
@skye a lot of questions here but i'll try to hit what i can

i would not condone an adult pursuing a romantic or sexual relationship with a minor (give or take a maximum gap of two years; romeo and juliet clauses are generally agreeable). i would sincerely hope that a pedophile in my circles was seeking help- if so, i would be thankful and supportive. otherwise, i would be in no position to come to their defence.

i understand therapy may not immediately help. some therapists suck; sometimes the attraction is dug too deep; perhaps a specialist would need to get involved. this particular subject is beyond my knowledge, but the least one could do is try.

fiction and art as a coping mechanism is common practice, and valuable in many cases. that said, i still feel extremely uncomfortable with the prospect here. others i know, many of whom are CSA survivors, would also be extremely uncomfortable with the idea. i think it's fair to argue that perhaps fiction and art, while great coping mechanisms for lots of cases, is not universally applicable. minimally, i 100% do not condone such material being shared around, as vulnerable people could be exposed to it and suffer adverse effects.

i have personally attempted to carve out a safe space for someone who was in this kind of difficult situation; who declared a need to use fiction to cope. it did not go well. tragically, i feel it only delayed harm instead of preventing it. my friends were extremely uncomfortable, and i risked substantial reputational damage in the process: turns out it's very difficult to defend someone who's pro-fiction without looking like a complete traitor to your CSA survivor friends.

and i am friends and acquaintances with a lot of CSA survivors. i have heard so many horrible stories from them and many others in my years of living. the concept of supporting pedophiles as any other human suffering from a condition would be noble, if not incredibly naive. the desires of pedophiles appears to land in jarring opposition with the critical safety needs of abuse survivors, the latter of which must absolutely be prioritised. there is no reality in which the sexual or romantic urges of others should be prioritised over the needs of vulnerable people.

i appreciate the desire to reach out and learn, but probing my moral compass, as most dialogue in this area tends to do, sorely lacks an absolutely critical component: listening to victims.

i have the luxury of saying i have not sustained trauma from sexual abuse as a child. so i can ponder and pontificate about right and wrong all the live-long day, but the opinions that matter most, if we actually care about doing any good at all, are from those who have actually suffered.

i fear that this dialogue, while innocent on the surface, lends far too much credence to those who cause the damage, rather than those who suffer from it.
Show threadskye (evil)Mar 2
@ari

yeah i agree about trying to seek help & trying therapy & such.

and of course fiction isn't universally applicable; i can't think of a single thing regarding mental issues that is universally applicable.

and i do agree i didn't think as much about people who suffer from it, so im gonna try to think of that on the spot while writing this reply and see what conclusions i come to. feel free to lmk if something is obviously not right or is inconsiderate of anything else



when it comes to carving out a space - there is, of course, a line. like if the person is talking about it with people who are conditioned by life to be uncomfortable and hurt by the topic, to me that's a whole different story. it's kind of a bitch move if done on purpose or repeatedly, if confronted about it of course.

i wouldn't want people to have to carve out a space for things everywhere - especially when boundaries exist - but it's just like. when it doesn't innately hurt a survivor or something like that, i think the other side also deserves to not be harmed

at least if they talk about it to not immediately be banned from all your circles. and also maybe they can find others with the shared experience and that can help them.



deviating from talking about people who are hurt for a second, but - i think it's important to remember that there's a fair share of pedophiles that *don't want* to be pedophiles, both ones who do seek help and ones that don't.

this is probably not an ideal example, but like. gambling looks so nice and fun. i would love to gamble on and on. but like it's just not a good idea and i know it's not a good idea and im not gonna do it, except for in fiction.

ok that example doesn't have a victim, but i could also talk about eg killing people or just causing harm to people. im not gonna pretend i never want to do that, i'd be lying. but im not gonna actually cause harm to people irl.



which leads me to "the desires of pedophiles..." - the attraction of pedophiles may well not match their logical desires.

i don't think this means we should prioritize pedophiles, i think it's important to make it safe for abuse survivors and let them also cope and heal if possible. i just think there is still something to be done like in at least letting pedophiles exist without immediate rejection, and letting them know whether you're down to listen to them about things regarding their attraction.

i think that of course we need to still keep in mind other people's boundaries when it comes to accepting a pedophile and they shouldn't get away with being a bitch.

but i also think that how many of them get rejected by everyone they know for just having that attraction is part of what pushes them to go from harmless to harmful. because that pushes them only further down into harmful communities as the only people that still accept them.

also, in terms of art - i do think it should at the very least be shared with appropriate content warnings, and there should be a tendency to try to keep it out of spaces with lots of other people.



anyway, yeah, i just think that there is a world where them and people who have actually suffered can both be given enough space in a balanced manner.


also, to be clear, i don't think that just revealing that one is a pedo when uncalled for is a good idea. in most social situations, that just isn't relevant and is only hurtful as a result. but it can sometimes come up, and csa survivors don't owe pedos acceptance or anything, but at least other people who can more healthily engage with the topic could let those people exist together with them.



i know my opinion doesn't matter as much here, but i'm simply tired of seeing so much negativity towards people who have done no harm and will continue to do no harm. i think we've gotten too accustomed to negativity in this world and that's part of what's dragging us down. and part of being less negative is being less hurtful to people who didn't do anything to deserve the hurt.



also, it's important to note that some (FAR FROM ALL) pedophiles are also abuse survivors, and that's what fucked them in the first place. what do we prioritize then? i'd just still accept them as long as there are healthy boundaries for both of us, idk.



i think another thing that's weird is that in SOME people - NOT accusing you specifically - it looks like a double standard when it comes to supporting some other things vs pedophiles.

IF you disagree, PLEASE DO say why, but there are things like a kink of being sexually into the idea of SA and only roleplaying those fictional situations or engaging with art about it.

(there's a 4-letter word im thinking of that would be easier to use, but for most of my life i've been mentally unable to bring myself to say the word, for my personal reasons, and i don't want to avoid filters)

talking about things like that kink has made people uncomfortable or straight up mentally hurt them in circles i've personally seen.

but again, i think the issue here is being unclear about boundaries, and i think that excluding them or condemning that kink isn't the way to go.

but some people (again, NOT saying you do, that would be an assumption) seem to think of that kink as okay but pedophilia is not okay, which is weird to me considering that both of those things are ideas of being into unconsensual and very hurtful things to do with sex.

and i can't speak for myself, and don't wanna speak for everyone, but i do know one person (they're NOT on fedi) who is both a CSA survivor and a pedophile, and she shares the viewpoint of those things being treated too differently for how similar they are (which we came to independently).

also, she's really good at understanding boundaries and i share social circles with her where i haven't seen an issue arise. but of course this is just one occurrence and i'm not gonna say that all people are automatically like that. just noting what i know



also, it's important to note that a lot of people who do abuse children aren't actually pedophiles. people like the power trip, and that's a big part of it.

this is probably not the ideal case to look at, but i'll still shoot. if we look at trump, he almost definitely is a pedo. but if we look at other people involved with epstein, many of them only really were involved as an unwritten pact by people in power that kind of bound them together. like "i've done this thing too now, if i speak out they'll know i've done it too, and this is a way to prove myself as part of them". or something like that. and maybe some of them did also just enjoy the power trip. but i would definitely expect at least some (not all) of what happened there to not actually come from pedophilia. not saying epstein or trump aren't pedos tho



but yeah, um. idk. i think that if done right we can just have fewer people who actually suffer from it. by not having pedos fall into worse groups, but establishing boundaries and making sure to not hurt survivors too.

and i think that's why supporting pedophiles as people with a condition isn't quite as naive, because that support doesn't mean letting them off the hook for any hurt they do - just like with other conditions that can be harmful. we don't just let them freely engage with it in times where it harms people, but we still try to create a condition where they'll only spiral later.



but yeah, i think we should still prioritize CSA survivors and make sure we're not minimizing the harm done by CSA. and that we shouldn't let them freely take in the existence of pedophiles in their spaces and pedophiles discussing said topic when it does hurt them.

it's totally understandable from a survivor perspective to not want to see that kinda thing.

as a society though, i think people are way too focused on the attraction rather than the act of harm itself, when the act of harm itself only sometimes comes from the attraction to begin with.

and for people who can handle things better, there's at least some acceptance and understanding that they can receive, and support they can get in trying to deal with the attraction in safe ways rather than unsafe ways.

though of course we don't need to plague a survivor's mind with that.


we can at least let pedophiles who try their best to not be harmful have even the most minor acceptance from people who are capable of giving them that acceptance.

though, again, that doesn't mean i'm for them being open about it with everyone and in every space, there's a fine line where it's more harmful than helpful.

and it's on them to also be respectful about it and respect boundaries.

and, again, while i think that other people can help more, i don't expect abuse survivors to do that, and i do want to have them first and foremost.



ok this is quite long and i probably repeated myself at least 5 times 💀 sorry about that

just trying to write what's on my mind and make sure to try to think of things that might be important or relevant

i'll stop here, idk. please lmk if something is obviously morally wrong
Show threadari 
@skye i'll try to keep this brief because i'm about burnt out on this discussion: see fedi.arimelody.space/notes/ajc6f169r4vzt3pv. following are specifically my intentions following these discussions.

at best, accepting pedophiles into a community is accepting risk- a risk i am not willing to take in my spaces, especially with them housing CSA survivors. given my last attempt at this yielded no positive change, i consider this strategy out of my hands.

pedophiles who are themselves CSA survivors should know quite well how damaging this risk can be; just because some branched to a path of embrace doesn't make it any less horrifying for those who have sustained intense fear and sorrow. i will only condone those who concede to the horrors that pedophilia yields.

every conversation i've had over the years regarding pedophilia has had the same conclusion: it is immoral and wrong to an unprecedented degree. it cannot be equated to most other morally dubious kinks as those do not necessitate the exploitation of a child. this is a line that much of society has very clearly drawn many times, and one i shouldn't have to reiterate. fiction or otherwise, time has proven again and again that it is wrong.

i have helped fight many culture wars alongside disadvantaged groups over the years. i'm comfortable not being known as a pedophile supporter.
ari :ariYeah: (@ari)

i've spent absurd hours today answering questions on how i feel about pedophiles. my answer is obvious (👎), but tonight a more interesting question arose: why the fuck does my opinion matter to you? why don't you ask the victims who suffer from abuse every single day? alwa...

ari's roblox place
Mar 2 at 1:58pmWeb
Show threadskye (evil)Mar 2
@ari yeah to be clear im not saying ur obligated to house pedophiles or anything to be very clear

i just care about people's opinions because it helps me see other perspectives and potentially change as a person, and just understand where people are coming from. i am interested in other people's opinions too