not_IO
AllNewTypeFace
WereHacker
Pat_Riot“Tankie” is just a derogatory term for anyone to the left of the person saying it
anarchists will use it for almost literally anyone
Great logic. Almost as if you’re speaking shite, unless anarchists are on the right now…
wonderingwandererNo one calls Mamdani a tankie, but I have seen tankies calling Mamdani a fascist. They clearly don’t know what fascism is.
Centrists also don’t use the term “tankie.” If anything they call everyone on the left a socialist (as if it’s a bad thing) or a communist or a radical leftist.
“Tankie” is specifically a word people on the left use to refer to auth-comms.
anarchists will use it for almost literally anyone
I mean, yeah? Like the most basic understanding of anarchy is that hierarchy is a bad thing, so it applies to a lot of political philosophies
Oh true, I forgot to add that they’ll complain about literally anyone except for actual fascists…
There!
Tankies and vatniks have a lot of overlap.
From my understanding, a vatnik is specifically someone who is shilling for the russian government. Not necessarily under a veneer of leftism (because the kremlin is far-right-wing).
A tankie may or may not be directly shilling for the kremlin, but it’s always an auth-comm under a guise of leftism.
Tankie vatniks exist of course, but they’re just the center of the venn diagram.
A decade ago, it was “as a black man in america…” Now I suppose it’s “as an autistic person in america…”
Still the same troll farms operating out of russia.
OBJECTION!The number of Chinese Marxist-Leninists alone vastly outnumbers us Western tankies. The vast majority of “tankies” live in various countries outside of the imperial core.
Even in the US, the most prominent and successful “tankie” organization was the Black Panther Party.
Oh, because we all know that the entire event was caught on video and it was so easy to smuggle film out of china at the time.
(Context: the video of tank man was hidden in a toilet while the authorities searched the man’s apartment after he was spotted filming from his window).
But denying massacres of civilians is so in character for someone from .ml, so nobody is surprised, really…
So if you’ve watched the full ‘tankman’ footage you would know that he wasn’t killed by a tank or by anything else in that video. You can believe decades and decades of breathless propaganda coming directly out of the NED and the other usual characters, or you believe your own lying eyes.
It’s sufficient to assume that if this one important image was essentially a lie, then many other aspects of the story are manufactured. For example did you know that many dozens of police officers (who were unarmed) were burnt to death by the student protestors? did you know that the leaders of the student protests were coordinating with and were paid by western intelligence agencies?
I might be a tankie, but you are a normie.
So because tank man wasn’t killed on camera, you’re claiming the entire massacre was a lie?
Does anyone even claim that he was killed? That was never the point of that video. The point was that an unnamed, ordinary, everyday person can be a hero during difficult times, even on his way back from the grocery store. He didn’t go out that day planning to be a hero, but the circumstances aligned and he chose courage over complacency.
For example did you know that many dozens of police officers (who were unarmed) were burnt to death by the student protestors?
Is that on video? Cause it sounds like you won’t believe the protesters were murdered unless it’s on video. So do you have video evidence corroborating this claim that it was actually the protesters who were killing cops?
I never thought I would hear a tankie with a pro-police argument. I guess “ACAB” comes with a footnote that says “except for the PLA”? How fast they turn around and lick boots when the dictators are anti-west…
did you know that the leaders of the student protests were coordinating with and were paid by western intelligence agencies?
You’re gonna need some evidence to back that up. Maga claims the anti-ICE protestors are paid by foreign influence, but the truth is people simply don’t like being oppressed by violent dictators.
Did you know that literally nancy pelosi was on the ground during those protests?
I don’t give a shit what nancy pelosi was doing. She’s a political opportunist and saw a moment to extort for clout. It’s not that deep.
do you know anything other than what imperialist propaganda has directed you to ‘know’?
Do you “know” anything other than imperialist propaganda has directed you to “know”? Tankies are a cult like maga, you reject reality as “propaganda” because it doesn’t align with your worldview, which is largely composed of actual propaganda.
I’d rather be a tankie than a normie
I’m definitely no normie, but thank fuck there are more than two options (sorry not sorry that conflicts with your campist worldview, but life isn’t sportsball team).
It is routinely claimed that the ‘tankman’ was killed by the tank right after the clip that is usually shown ends. The full video shows that he left along with others who convinced him to leave. You might not be making that claim, but that was what the anti-chinese propaganda claimed for decades.
The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that the massacre in fact happened. What exists in video form is a man standing in front of a tank and then NOT being killed. Despite many many lies sugfesting otherwise. It seems like you don’t participate in that particular lie, while still uncritically accepting the rest of the narrative. Perhaps if one major detail of the story is false other details of the story are also false? i guess we’ll just have to trust that the same three-letter agencies who have every reason and motive to undermine chinese sovereignty are in this particular case trustworthy.
I mention the burning to death of unarmed police to illustrate to you which side was the more violent and unrestrained. Violence which is characteristic of foreign regime-change operations and hybrid warfare.
I want to defund the police and reform the organisation to serve the people, there’s enough room within this worldview to not be burning cops alive (and i must stress again that the were not armed with lethal force).
You say that you aren’t a normie but then uncritically accept an obviously distorted version of history which has been constructed to serve western imperial interests.
Maybe you’re an operator who does actually know the truth but lies about it professionally. In that case i’m sorry for inaccurately describing you as a normie, when really you would be a glowie.
but just in case you are actually just a normie in denial here’s a thing to read
ValmondAt the end of the day the deeds define the word, not the other way around. Not everyone will use the word correctly or appropriately. It’s why only you yourself can truly categorize as such, but at that point you must come to terms with what that means, positively or negatively.
The bias thing is a real problem, but also sometimes not. It all depends on the context. Some people with unreasonable opinions will absolutely waste your time by never accepting difficult realities and talking around it, so identifying a mindset that’s immune to self reflection can be useful. But similarly if a label is all that’s needed to dismiss an opinion also is not very reasonable.
It’s basically a term people on the left use for people on the extreme outer-reaches of the left, typically unthinking, uncritical, and unreasonable supporters of bolshevism and authoritarian communism, and pretty much any oppressive regime that considers itself “anti-west.”
They love putin, jinping, kim, assad, khamenei, etc.
They stylize themselves as “Marxist-Leninists” and your instance is full of them, so if you signed up unknowingly and aren’t a tankie, people might just assume based on the “.ml”
But yeah, most people on lemmy are tired of arguing in circles with tankies, who typically rely on ad hominems, strawmen, sealioning, and other bad faith or uncharitable arguments to bully you into exhaustion. Some of them have to be bots or russian trolls, cause no one can honestly be so dense. It can feel like arguing with someone from r/conservative, just with the opposite opinions.
It’s not that vague if you’ve ever encountered one in the wild. You would know exactly what it’s referring to. And it’s nothing like conservatives using “woke.” They use “woke” to describe anything mildly progressive. Tankies aren’t progressives, they’re accelerationist armchair militants. They call democratic socialists fascists.
Even if your opinion aligns with them on most things, it doesn’t automatically make you a tankie. If you’re not an auth-comm intent on bullying everyone who disagrees with you the slightest bit and labeling all nuance and critical reasoning as capitalist imperialist propaganda, then you’re probably not a tankie.
That’s also different from critiquing actual imperialism and capitalism. But tankies’ overuse of those terms and others like “fascist” waters down the meanings and obfuscates the terms, making it harder for good-faith communicators to actually discuss these topics critically.
You can be anti-imperialist all you want, but tankies use western imperialism as an excuse to justify supporting imperialist regimes like Russia. They’re full of cognitive dissonance.
Go ahead and disagree with someone slightly on .ml or hexbear and see what kind of response you get.
I’ve yet to try those kinds of response, when I discuss with people. Then again I haven’t been going into discussion about Yemen for instance. Mainly because my actual knowledge is simply to small to contribute. I do support anti-imperialist struggles, even by regimes I don’t like. But that does not mean I waiver my right to call out they in turn tyrannize their populations.
And yeah, I have a feeling we have a lot of online cosplayers here in the fediverse, but I will keep treating people as if they are real, when I interact. That however also mean I will keep asking people for definitions. I.e. what do you mean when you say “fash”, “tankie”, “lib” and so on. People use the slurs to hide behind and everyone loves if we can make everything black and white.
But I am a socialist and I have been called a tankie several times and I’ve even been banned for a couple of sub because I asked about that definition. I don’t mind people not liking what I say, but I will not take being slurred without questioning it. If that means a ban, well I am happy for getting out of another echo chamber.
Mainly because my actual knowledge is simply to small to contribute
See, an actual tankie would never admit to having limitations on their own personal knowledge and understanding.
But I am a socialist and I have been called a tankie several times
I’m a socialist too and tankies have called me a fascist because I believe in democratic-socialism instead of bolshevism. They clearly don’t know what fascism is.
Not even a little bit, I’m just not afraid to disagree with tankies who are shilling for dictators just because they happen to be anti-west dictators. Apparently to the average tankie, that makes me a “liberal fascist,” whatever that is, or a zionist or an imperialist apologist or a genocide supporter or all those other things that I’m not but tankies like accusing everyone who isn’t a tankie of being.
I do plenty of calling out western dictators too. I can be anti-maga and anti-tankie. That’s something tankies can’t seem to wrap their heads around.
I use the word tankie a lot because there are a lot of tankies on the internet. I suppose a tankie would think that’s overusing it though. Tankies overuse words like “capitalist shitlib,” “zionist,” “fascist,” “western imperialist,” and “genocide apologist.” Those things are all deserving of critique, but I’m none of those things. And if tankies don’t stop throwing them around like meaningless insults, then they’re gonna lose their meanings and get treated like meaningless insults.
I’ve already had people tell me to stop hyperbolizing while talking about actual fascists, because people are so worn down by tankies calling everyone and their mother a fascist just for being closer to the center than a bolshevik.
I never said “I’m socialist because I’m anti-maga.” I’m socialist, and I’m anti-maga.
The end game is incremental progress by working within the systems that are in place to achieve gradual change.
It’s not about compromising with the ruling class. If any DemSoc is going about it that way, they’re doing it wrong.
Mamdani is doing great things for New York, none of which would be happening if because of some ideological purism he decided to stay home and be a keyboard warrior instead of getting into politics.
You’re quite rude. It would do liberals a lot of good to read some theory. They’d understand what the “tankies” are talking about rather than dismissing them as lunatics.
The best of the Democratic Socialist countries are still ran by child murdering shitbags. They’re probably gearing up to bomb schools alongside the US.
What did I say that was rude?
Also, you’re assuming I’m a liberal and that I haven’t read leftist theory. I understand what tankies are talking about enough to engage with it critically, which is apparently more than they do.
The best of the Democratic Socialist countries are still ran by child murdering shitbags
Do you mean Social Democracy countries? Because Democratic Socialism is a political party or persuasion, not a political system in its own right. What country is exclusively Democratic Socialist?
There are countries that are Social Democracies, and most of them have some of the best human rights track records out of all modern nations.
But if you want to cherrypick the most egregious examples of western nations and lump every western nation in with them under some collective guilt, while ignoring the infractions, crimes, and atrocities of all the non-western and anti-western countries, then I suppose you could make the argument that Social Democracies are baby murderers. It wouldn’t be a very good argument, but that just describes the layers of distortion you would have to put it through to reach that conclusion.
But keep blaming the Nordic model for the crimes of the US, I’m sure that strategy will convince somebody, just not me.
Oh and by the way, do you want to mention the millions of deaths under Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot? Since apparently you’re juxtaposing “true” leftism against all the inferior or “untrue” leftisms as some sort of harbinger of moral superiority and respect for human lives?
Do you mean Social Democracy countries? Because Democratic Socialism is a political party or persuasion, not a political system in its own right. What country is exclusively Democratic Socialist?
A political party or persuasion? Which is it? It seems you don’t exactly have a clear idea on what it is. It is absolutely an ideology. Though it would like socialism, it prioritizes compromising with capitalism, much like social democracy. Is it really even worth trying to distinguish between the two?
But keep blaming the Nordic model for the crimes of the US, I’m sure that strategy will convince somebody, just not me.
The majority of Nordic countries are part of NATO. It’s a nasty terrorist organization.
Oh and by the way, do you want to mention the millions of deaths under Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot? Since apparently you’re juxtaposing “true” leftism against all the inferior or “untrue” leftisms as some sort of harbinger of moral superiority and respect for human lives?
You pretend to be progressive, but fail to see true progressivism. I’m guessing you’re talking deaths due to famine, which were the majority of the deaths under those leaders, but conditions improved due to those leaders, and the people of course. Socialism is all about the collective. The role of the dictator of the proletariat is to keep the capitalists from returning to power, not oppress the people. You claim to not be a liberal, but you’re sure coming off as one, rude like one as well. Millions die due to capitalism every year. I’m not sure why you’re not bringing that up as well. Also, do note that you’re now defending capitalism. Not a real progressive thing to do.
Political parties are based on commonalities of persuasion. Democratic Socialism is primarily a political persuasion, but there are some countries with Democratic Socialist parties, which are obviously based on the persuasion. It wasn’t unclear, unless you’re deliberately trying to muddy the waters.
Both of those things are different from a political system, though. Social Democracies can have multiple political parties of various persuasions, because Social Democracy itself isn’t an individual party but a whole system within which various parties interact. There are social democratic parties, based on the goal of implementing policies that resemble how a social democracy would run.
The majority of Nordic countries are part of NATO. It’s a nasty terrorist organization.
Fucking vatnik.
You pretend to be progressive, but fail to see true progressivism.
Oh, so I guess “true progressivism” is Lenin ordering the Bolsheviks to assassinate all the Soviet leadership and replace them with sycophantic puppets because… he lost an election to them?
Millions die due to capitalism every year
I never denied that, and I don’t support capitalism.
I’m not sure why you’re not bringing that up as well.
Way to flip the fucking script. I brought up the deaths under Lenin et al as a response to you failing to mention them while pointing out the supposed deaths Social Democracy is allegedly responsible for. I even acknowledged that some western countries have committed war crimes, but I guess you’ll just breeze over anything that doesn’t reinforce your predetermined narrative?
Also, do note that you’re now defending capitalism.
I didn’t do that, but believe it or not I can be against bolshevism and capitalism. Not everyone is trapped in your narrow, campist worldview.