✧✦Catherine✦✧"are software engineers Real Engineers or not" is a pointless distraction. software engineers who don't know how to deal with guilt love to self-flagellate with it and other than that there's no basis in reality for that discourse. do something useful instead
nobody asks if electrical engineers are Real Engineers or not even though there's no licensing requirement for the vast majority of EE work and plenty of people do it quite successfully without so much as tertiary education
4censord 
@whitequark wait there is no licensing requirement for them where you are!?
Here in Germany, you need a "master" (not a masters degree, so not university!) To run an electricians shop. Its a 2 year (I think) class that you can do after and apprenticeship
Here in Germany, you need a "master" (not a masters degree, so not university!) To run an electricians shop. Its a 2 year (I think) class that you can do after and apprenticeship
@4censord electrical engineering != professional electrician, these are different occupations
the former designs your laptop or USB charger or (in comparatively rare cases) grid distribution systems
the latter does the wiring in your house
Russ Garrett@whitequark @4censord but in fact you don't need any formal certification to be a commercial electrician in the UK - the law focuses on "competence" and doesn't specify where that competence comes from, though insurers might. (There is a qualification scheme for domestic electricians.)
crzwdjk ✅ @russss @whitequark @4censord That's fascinating, where I live electricians have to be certified by what amounts to the electricians' guild and to do that you have to work under a certified electrician for 2 years.
@crzwdjk @whitequark @4censord and yet the UK is considered one of the best countries in the world for electrical safety! I still don't entirely understand why, but strict qualification regimes definitely aren't the reason here.
@russss @whitequark @4censord Maybe it's better standards so it's harder to screw it up? Stuff like fused plugs and the like, I assume the approach to earth fault protection is better than in the US, etc.
@whitequark @russss @4censord if you grab a NEMA plug wrong you get a 110 volt tingle because it's absolutely normal for the blades lf the plug to be exposed while still live so the British standards are slightly better than that. Also extension cords where the only overcurrent protection is the cord melting, and the only solution to this is to demand more closely spaced outlets to discourage use of extension cords.
@whitequark @russss @4censord In conclusion everything sucks, but also more research is warranted on what actually contributes to good electrical safety outcomes in practice.
@crzwdjk @whitequark @4censord the plugs are only fused because of our weird ring main wiring system, it doesn't add any additional safety over a radial circuit with an unfused plug. And sometimes it's annoying.
The UK is fairly good at keeping track of trends in electrical safety incidents and updating regulations to deal with them (since 1882!) but I think the UK was actually quite late in mandating RCD/GFCIs.