✧✦Catherine✦✧"are software engineers Real Engineers or not" is a pointless distraction. software engineers who don't know how to deal with guilt love to self-flagellate with it and other than that there's no basis in reality for that discourse. do something useful instead
nobody asks if electrical engineers are Real Engineers or not even though there's no licensing requirement for the vast majority of EE work and plenty of people do it quite successfully without so much as tertiary education
4censord 
@whitequark wait there is no licensing requirement for them where you are!?
Here in Germany, you need a "master" (not a masters degree, so not university!) To run an electricians shop. Its a 2 year (I think) class that you can do after and apprenticeship
Here in Germany, you need a "master" (not a masters degree, so not university!) To run an electricians shop. Its a 2 year (I think) class that you can do after and apprenticeship
@4censord electrical engineering != professional electrician, these are different occupations
the former designs your laptop or USB charger or (in comparatively rare cases) grid distribution systems
the latter does the wiring in your house
Russ Garrett@whitequark @4censord but in fact you don't need any formal certification to be a commercial electrician in the UK - the law focuses on "competence" and doesn't specify where that competence comes from, though insurers might. (There is a qualification scheme for domestic electricians.)
groff 🇺🇦You don't need to be qualified to work on a car's critical safety features, ie brakes, either. Just follow a youtube video then hurtle down the motorway at 70mph.
But, with electrics, you can't do work that needs certifying without jumping through hoops, getting it inspected by building control.
So new fuseboard, work in areas with extra risk, etc.
And any electrical work done by anyone needs to comply with BS7671:2018 and amendments, a 600+ page large book.
@geoffl @whitequark @4censord there are no building regulations for electrical installations in commercial premises - it's covered by health and safety law.
Yvan@russss this kinda works out as being regulated in practice though?
Building Control wouldn't sign off on pub rennovation work without an installation certificate from an electrician.
And for the warehouse the fire department required us to show them an EICR (IIRC it was a 5-yearly requirement).
R@yvan @russss @geoffl @whitequark @4censord
i do know some hackspace and/or heritage railway people who have managed to do work such as adding a new circuit for an IEC 60309 socket, without being a formally-registered electrician ("catgirl/catenby who has studied the relevant regulations and knows how to do paperwork" was competent enough for their insurer)
also known some people in similar situations where the insurer wasn't as chill