Cowbee [he/they]Capitalist authority vs. worker authority
Onno (VK6FLAB)… and both countries are run by despots.
To the contrary, the USSR brought dramatic democratization to society. First-hand accounts from Statesian journalist Anna Louise Strong in her book This Soviet World describe soviet elections and factory councils in action. Statesian Pat Sloan even wrote Soviet Democracy to describe in detail the system the soviets had built for curious Statesians to read about, and today we have Professor Roland Boer’s Socialism in Power: On the History and Theory of Socialist Governance to reference.
How could they have materially been more democratic in a way that would satisfy you? Unless you’re talking about the Russian Federation, but that’s not what I was talking about in this post.
You fail to understand that the USSR ceased to exist. What remains is run by a despot, regardless of your feelings or intent.
I understand that the USSR dissolved. During its time, it was comprehensively democratic in a way that supercedes what capitalism can offer, proven in practice by the sharp decay in democratization with the reinstatement of capitalism. Is your argument that the dissolution of the USSR was unavoidable? That takes a great deal of evidence to prove.
I am attempting to point out that a document that you’re holding up as an ideal, together with what it represents and how society surrounding it was structured did not last for more than 55 years, which is less time than I’ve been on this planet.
While it might represent something that you find appealing or inspiring, it didn’t last, or said differently, it failed.
I’d also point out that countries like Australia don’t have a constitution at all and they’ve lasted longer than that.
I think that you need to find a better argument to promote a worker based economy. Perhaps the co-op based system in Italy, which has lasted longer, is a more sustainable way to go.
LeeeroooyJeeenkiiins [none/use name]did not last for more than 55 years
It was literally dissolved illegally thanks to pressure from outside forces
Your head belongs in a toilet, shit for brains
You haven’t explained why socialism was dissolved in the USSR, though, despite gesturing towards your belief that it was an inevitability of the system to do so. This is wrong, though, contemporary analysis shows that the USSR, though slowing down in development, was still positively growing and developing, and was under no real material crisis at the time of its dissolution. It was killed politically. Without understanding the context and underlying causes, you’re just hinting that it’s related to the socialist system itself.
Why then, have the PRC, Cuba, DPRK, Vietnam, and Laos continued their socialist systems? How are they similar, and how are they different? Do you believe their collapse is similarly inevitable as you believe the USSR’s dissolution to have been, or is that unique to the USSR’s conditions?
As for Italy and the cooperative movement, it’s neat, but it isn’t socialism, and is in the context of an imperialist state. If Italy had cooperative ownership as the principle aspect of its economy and had given up on its imperialism, we would have an interesting discussion on socialism vs cooperativism, but that’s not the case. Australia is a capitalist settler-colony and too depends on imperialism.
Flyberius [comrade/them]Losing to a hostile force means you don’t deserve to exist, eh? By that reasoning I guess Palestine had it coming.
I’d also point out that countries like Australia don’t have a constitution at all and they’ve lasted longer than that.
peo.gov.au/…/the-australian-constitution-online
It isnt brought up often because its boring
Italy always had a very strong communist and anarchist movement though, the communist party was a major political force in Italy until the 1990s. I don’t really get your point, there were also numerous attempts to reform the system before it reached the state of decline that it did. Hell plenty of people didn’t even want the USSR to stop existing they just wanted some economic reforms, there were enough sharks who smelt the blood in the water though and realised they could make a killing by selling out their country and their people.
I’d also point out that countries like Australia don’t have a constitution at all and they’ve lasted longer than that.
It’s the incredible mix of being completely certain about things they’re blatantly wrong about that makes shitlibs so insufferable.
I’d also point out that countries like Australia don’t have a constitution at all and they’ve lasted longer than that.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Australia ?!?! I’m genuinely a little baffled by this. Reading about it, it looks like there are some important elements of the structure of the government that aren’t part of the Constitution, most notably the office of Prime Minister not even being mentioned, but that’s extremely different from there not being a Constitution at all.
I think that you need to find a better argument to promote a worker based economy. Perhaps the co-op based system in Italy, which has lasted longer, is a more sustainable way to go.
“X country was defeated, therefore a better example of a government is a bunch of cooperatives that exist inside of an imperialist state that is building up toward being taken over by fascists again.”
I’ve got nothing against those co-ops, but this is apples to oranges and just seems like motivated reasoning.
I’d also point out that countries like Australia don’t have a constitution at all and they’ve lasted longer than that.
Are you… Feeling okay? Did it even occur to you to maybe google this bonkers claim?! Now personally I don’t feel like this neoliberal, white supremacist, settler-colonial project which was founded on a continuing genocide is much of a model for anything regardless of how long it’s lasted, but it does in fact have a fucking constitution!
What’s really depressing and frustrating about all this is that at no point will this experience ever tempt you even for a second to consider you could be wrong about other things, too. 55+ years on this earth and you haven’t bothered to learn the critical thinking skills of an eight year old.