Exa, never surely completeFeb 24
 when a message is deleted, it should...
immediately disappear for everyone and be permanently missing from history (Discord behavior)
11.1%
be immediately replaced with a "deleted message" marker, which remains in the history (Matrix behavior)
55.6%
be immediately replaced with a "deleted message" marker, but disappear from history
27.8%
something else
5.6%
Poll ended at .
Show threadExa, never surely completeFeb 24
 if you answer "something else" please reply with what the something else is
Show threadExa, never surely completeFeb 24
 presently i am feeling like #3 is the right answer. but would like to know others' feelings on it
Show threadExa, never surely completeFeb 24
 i think in trying to make what these mean clear, i made it less clear
Show threadExa, never surely complete
 separately, unread notifications for deleted messages...
should remain with the original text visible (old Discord behavior)
0%
should be replaced with "Deleted message" but remain unread (Matrix behavior)
42.5%
should be revoked (new Discord behavior)
55%
something else
2.5%
Poll ended at .
Feb 24 at 10:29pmWeb
Show threadExa, never surely completeFeb 24

 admins of communities should...

(i can see 1 being useful for antispam but also highly abusable. could be dealt with by an audit log)

be able to "expunge" messages, completely erasing them without any trace, ala deletion method #1
62.9%
not have a special form of super-delete
37.1%
Poll ended at .
Show threadExa, never surely completeFeb 24

 i think after the discussions posting all this has sprung in various places this is my conclusion:

* deleted messages are replaced with permanent deleted message markers, which do not retain authorship information to avoid metadata leakage and display of spam profiles
* a deleted message that pings you retains a ping marker, so you can see the cause of your ping even if it's torn paper
* notifications from deleted messages stay, but become silent (i.e. stop blinking your notification light or displaying interruptively on-screen, where supported) and have their message replaced with a deletion indicator, so that you're not wondering why you got a notification sound when there isn't a notification
* admins do not get a special super-delete — the confusion and abuse that can be caused by having two modes of deletion is worse than spam removal leaving traces, as it already does generally from moderator pings/etc
* "message deleted by sender" and "message deleted by admin" are distinct states and may be shown differently in the UI
* many deleted messages in sequence that share a cause are merged together

still interested in the poll results though. even if the wording is clumsy

Show threadExa, never surely completeFeb 24

 it may be worth providing an authorship-retaining form of deletion, which would probably be called "redact" (to keep authorship) and "expunge" (to remove authorship)

fundamentally both admins and senders should be able to use it

Show threadExa, never surely completeFeb 24
 now considering how to make a pixel composer pipeline that generates a "torn paper" ninepatch lol
Show threadvriska, thief of light Feb 26
@exa imo it should display who deleted a message (just saying "original poster" not the actual user) and coalesce messages deleted by the same moderator within, like, an hour even if they're non-consecutive
Show threadvriska, thief of light Feb 26
@exa or actually maybe just draw a deleted/removed distinction like reddit
Show threadLillith "Infinidoge"Feb 24

@exa Server (not zone) administrator at minimum should have the ability to expunge, (since they could theoretically edit the database if they wanted to), but should be able to allow zones to expunge if they want.

Having an audit log would be good either way

Show threadkasimirFeb 24
@exa i think this depends on how you choose to present deleted messages. if they're hidden from history, then it might make sense to revoke the notification, if you choose to leave a marker, then it might make sense to show that notification as well. thinking about it some more though, it does seem like a bit of a useless notification to have: i do not like having a lot of notifications and seeing a notification about a deleted message (that i cannot read!) seems very useless.
Show threadExa, never surely completeFeb 24
@kasimir  the argument in favor of #2 is that you may have received a notification sound but not responded to it, and by the time you get around to it you have no notification and were therefore "ghost pinged"
Show threadkasimirFeb 24
@exa ah yes, i tend to disable notifications sounds so i forgot about that. absolutely agree though, that is certainly a good reason to keep the notification in some form.