hexSo the Right has been talking about how the FEMA concentration camps, the pedophile conspiracy, and how they're gonna take all the guns, but now that the pedophile conspiracy is building concentration camps and disarming then executing legal gun owners, all I can hear is the sucking sound as they try to swallow the whole damn boot.
As salty as I am about it, there's also another way to think about this. For anyone who still has connections to folks on the right (which is perhaps unlikely for anyone on this server, I digress), the cult that has consumed them thrives on isolation and grievance.
The words "you were right" have the potential to cut through the programming and open up an opportunity for reconnection. The modern conspiratorial cult of the Right has been built partially around people who were told they were wrong or were crazy. In the vast majority of cases, they were wrong and even when they were right they completely misunderstood why, but we'll skip that for now. Liberals making fun of them (even the times when they definitely earned it) has pushed them further and further into their ideological hole.
The thing about those words, "you were right," in this context is that the way they offer reconnection also requires them to take one little step of betraying their ideology to accept them. So they must choose between maintaining allegiance to a pedophile or finally getting to feel superior after years of living in an illusion of persecution.
Under the ideology of the Right, admitting one is wrong is a weakness. It is admitting defeat. They have to "own the libs" by saying things, things that they know aren't true, in order to feel dominant. But these things are often so absurd that they end up being made fun of, feeling even more weak and pathetic, reinforcing their fear and alienation.
Offering what they're looking for can offer a way out, but only if they're willing to start to recognize the thing they've supported for what it is.
And they were right about some things. They were right that Bill Gates was a terrible person. I've had plenty of liberals defend him based on his philanthropy washing, but he's awful and always has been. The Epstein links make that blatant. They intuitively recognized him and didn't trust him, even if they were wildly off base about *how and why* he shouldn't be trusted... Even if their correct mistrust was leveraged into one of the most destructive conspiracy theories ever (vaccine denial and COVID vaccine avoidance).
They were right about Bill Clinton. He was always shady as fuck. Sure, the people who attacked him at the time turned out to be even more shady but that's not the point right now. He was connected to Epstein and that was always creepy as fuck.
And the Epstein thing was an open secret that liberals ignored for a long time. It was seen as some weird thing that right wing nutjobs believed about the Clintons. But it was true. Not all of it, and there has always been an antisemitic element to the right wing interpretation or Epstein stuff, but his whole pedophile conspiracy was always kind of real.
The whole "Illuminati"/deep state thing is a vast oversimplification, an attempt to make comprehensible an incredibly complex set of interlocking and emergent behaviors. But Epstein did very much want to remake the world, to create a new world order, and he absolutely played a part in it.
The Right wing nutjobs talked about global authoritarianism, Blackhawks flying over American cities, masked men with guns disarming and executing legal gun owners in the streets. That's all happening right now.
The "FEMA concentration camps" are not actually that far off. ICE and FEMA are sister agencies, both under DHS. I'd be more than happy to call that one "close enough" in order to hear some MAGA admit that ICE is, in fact, building concentration camps.
There was always a huge millennialist element to these things. They tended to be connected to "the antichrist." It was absurd, especially for me as someone who no longer identifies as a Christian. But I'll even acquiess that to a degree. The "the number of the Beast" is 666. That's just the sum of the Hebrew spelling of "Nero." Revelations focuses a lot on Nero coming back to life after his death. His death that involved a head wound, thus the line from Revelation 13:3:
> And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast.
The parallels between Trump and Nero are easy to draw, and Trump's ear wound feels pretty on-the-nose for this. I don't believe in "prophecy" in this way. I think that there are patterns, and useful patterns can become encoded in beleif systems. But I will, again, happily call this one "close enough" for anyone on that side willing to also acknowledge it. I'm happy to meet on that common ground, because anyone who accepts it must recognize that their duty is to fight against it.
A lot of these correct nuggets are embedded in a framework of religious extremism and antisemitism. The vast majority of the beliefs holding these together are wildly wrong and incredibly toxic. But by giving some room to feel validated, listened to, understood, can give some room to admit things that were wrong.
Cult de-programming starts with an opening. People have to talk through their own thoughts, hear their own inconsistencies. Guiding questions can help them untangle these things for themselves. And it all starts by having enough room to feel safe, to not feel cornered, to not feel stupid. Admitting mistakes means being vulnerable, and the MAGA cult is built on fear. It's built on exploiting vulnerability and locking it away.
De-programming takes a long time. It's not easy. It takes patience. But every person who comes out does so with a powerful perspective, a deep understanding, that can be turned back against it. The best people at getting people out of cults are former members. Some of the most dedicated antifa are former fascists who understood their mistakes and dedicate their lives to fixing them.
This really belongs on blue sky but I just don't have the patience for that. There's also probably some mutation of this that would make sense on Facebook, but I'm still enjoying having deleted my account 8 or 9 years ago now.
Daughter of DiscordPlus the character count on Bluesky would force you to post this in 40 different posts in a thread and that's just annoying AF
And like.... I get it. I know these folks are terrible. But if you still have any of these people in your life, there is a level of privilege generally associated with that. Everyone who doesn't have the privilege needs you to use it now to help ease the boot on their neck.
Every crack in this system is important, even if it's just one more person who is out.
"When your ready enemy is strong, divide them. When your enemy is weak, attack them."
We're still in that "dividing" phase, and providing a path for folks to leave the cult undermines the power of the cult. The more people who leave, the faster they leave, the faster it unravels. If you hate Trump, and you still can talk to any of his supporters, now is the time to stop gloating and pointing out how stupid they are and to instead give them a way to leave. Most of them don't actually want to be defending a demented pedophile, so please help them stop doing that.
Mother Anarchy@Hex just want to take a second to point out that there are two kind of people who are maga. Cultists and psychopaths. These aren't mutually exclusive, so it is necessary to learn to differentiate which are psychopaths and which aren't. Psychopaths may "come around", especially if you tell them they were right, but they will never truly be on our side. They won't sacrifice for anyone else, so they can never be trusted and will throw any of us under the bus if its convenient. Cultists who are genuinely reformed and NOT psychopaths can become true and uniquely perceptive allies. More info on psychopaths here: archub.neocities.org/psyc
Rich Puchalsky ⩜⃝Doing horseshoe theory on purpose is kind of dangerous though. I've seen a number of people putatively on the left try to make common cause via things like this and end up the right: it's pretty much a cliche for a certain kind of left pundit.
That said if we're going for true things that the right claimed for a long time:
* MSM is horrible
* all liberal politicians are horrible (and conservative of course, but)
* things were better economically for ordinary people a few decades ago
@richpuchalsky I think it's worth saying that there's a "liberal" basis in MSM. Note "liberal" *not* "left." Liberalism and conservatism benefit from conflating the two.
But yes, absolutely, horseshoing is not a good idea. I don't think there's any reason to make a common cause. The point is not collaboration, IMHO, but subversion and division. We need to maximize the current division in the MAGA crowd rather than uniting them by hitting them repeatedly with the "I told you so" line.
We don't *really* need help. We just need them to not help their side.
I wouldn't call it a liberal bias so much as straight up writing the news in a way to support people in power. For instance when the NYT decided to do transphobia, that wasn't liberal. Anyways this is a minor distinction compared to "you know how you went on about pedophiles at Comet Ping Pong? You were right!"
The real problem with this is that people in general are vulnerable to having their opinions changed through social agreement and leftists are not immune.
@richpuchalsky absolutely. There's definitely a combination of social support (from places like this) that folks need to stay grounded while going into these mental spaces.
It's also important to remain internally critical while being externally vulnerable, which can be difficult. On some level there are memetic innovations against these things. As you said, "specific types of leftist" folks are more vulnerable. I think the anarchist critique makes it a lot easier to resist because we've already been exposed to a lot of these ideas but contextualized differently. Like, most of these things are things I've already said just coming from a leftist perspective.
"Memetic vaccination" is great, but even bio vaccination doesn't work 100% and really is just part of a larger strategy of decreasing disease spread throughout herd immunity.
I expect that the strain that has infected so many long since reached its peak and had evolved into something much less virulent by this point, but I could, perhaps, be wrong.
john.brown_typeface@Hex
admitting to wrongs, mischaracterizations, and sharing accountability is a universal good - the right (including liberals) and the left are in dire straits from their resistance to it
not sure what all you're referring to with the Clintons but the right was right about the Mena Connection cover-up too
Funambolo@Hex fascists _must_ disarm the people to maintain control in the long run. This detail seems to be lost to the right-wing gun-loving people who support what the Trump administration is doing.
sidereal@funambolo @Hex it depends, the original Nazis dramatically expanded gun rights in Germany… for “loyal aryan” citizens. Jews and communists, not so much.
calcius@sidereal @funambolo @Hex
I feel the following is also worth mentioning.
(source: https://www.npr.org/2026/01/21/nx-s1-5674887/ice-budget-funding-congress-trump)
ICE is currently only has powers to arrest people they suspect are illegal immigrants, with bonuses paid per arrest.
source(https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/blog/ice-expanding-detention-system/)The number of people held in ICE detention on any given day increased by over 75% in one year.
By the end of November 2025, ICE was using 104 more facilities for immigration detention than at the start of the year, a 91% increase.
The Trump administration has dramatically changed the profile of who is being arrested by increasing the use of “at-large” arrests in American communities by 600%, leading to an unprecedented deployment of federal law enforcement.
With the funding provided by the One Big Beautiful Bill Act, ICE has enough funding to operate upwards of 135,000 detention beds through the end of FY 2029.
These changes in arrest practices have led to a 2,450% increase in the number of people with no criminal record being held in ICE detention on any given day.
John@calcius @sidereal @Hex @funambolo
Of course, before OB3A - passed with Democratic votes, mind you - Biden had already increased the budget of ICE by more than 30%.
The Laken Riley Act, which 46 Dem Reps and 10 Dem Senators supported, eviscerates due process for any "illegal" immigrant who is a "criminal" arrested by ICE.
Of course, due process is how you find out *if* they're undocumented, and *if* they have criminal records.
Your problem isn't just Trump. It's the political class itself.
@johnzajac @sidereal @Hex @funambolo
Centrism is why parties in all industrial democracies resemble eachother - all pushing policies that differ only in wording.
Thatcher and Reagan turned up brandishing Freidmanism at the same point in time. In their respective countries organised popular action had forced policy changes on rightist governments and via Freidmanism set out to neuter the left.
Currently in the UK a supposed left-leaning government, headed by a prime minister who worked as a lawyer handling human rights cases and latterly as Chief Prosecutor, is handing out stiffer prison sentences for political activism than for murder.
Centrism is why parties in all industrial democracies resemble eachother - all pushing policies that differ only in wording.
Thatcher and Reagan turned up brandishing Freidmanism at the same point in time. In their respective countries organised popular action had forced policy changes on rightist governments and via Freidmanism set out to neuter the left.
Currently in the UK a supposed left-leaning government, headed by a prime minister who worked as a lawyer handling human rights cases and latterly as Chief Prosecutor, is handing out stiffer prison sentences for political activism than for murder.
Superstars of the Apocalypse@johnzajac @calcius @sidereal @Hex @funambolo
Bluesky liberals will insist that under Obama and Biden, ICE was a band of merry men who distributed ice cream and ponies to people, and they *only* deported "criminals."
(1) people shouldn't be deported for jaywalking or driving with expired tags
(2) kids in cages
(3) forced hysterectomies
(4) rapes
(5) deaths in those camps, too
I just cannot take liberals seriously.
Justin Free@Hex
Mandatory open carry for all
No concealed carry (concealed is a bitch made psycho-lurker mentality)
Mandatory open carry for all
No concealed carry (concealed is a bitch made psycho-lurker mentality)