JWcph, Radicalized By DecencyFeb 22

RE: https://mstdn.ca/@drikanis/116107120926277506

I'd like to comment on the common "AI is just a tool" thing: I'm a woodworker by training & that means a lot of machines - but almost every craftsperson knows how to do their job with hand tools, or "lesser" machines.

Similarly, a writer can write without a text editor - just as well, only slower.

If loss of a tool = loss of your skill & knowledge, then that tool isn't an asset, it's a liability. You're signing over your ability to do business to whoever sells & maintains that tool.

#AI

Show threadArtemisFeb 22
@jwcph Funnily enough I wanted to kind of challenge you with saying that it's unlikely a programmer would be able to write a complex program "by hand" (using assembly) but... a sufficiently motivated programmer probably could. It would be an absolutely miserable experience, you'd have to invent a lot from the first principles, but in the end it's all system calls and the documentation is out there.
Show threadfedithomFeb 22

@art_codesmith

The point was, that vibe coders can't "code" at all without AI. And pre-AI, people already wrote software. So ... What was your point again?

@jwcph

Show threadArtemisFeb 22
@fedithom @jwcph My point is that you can apply similar logic to compilers and programming languages. If you’re proficient at making web apps in Python, you maybe *could* make one in assembly, but it would take a lot of time and effort and, as I said, would probably not be a good experience.
Show threadandrew blinn
@art_codesmith @fedithom @jwcph this is an interesting point and maybe reflective of why llm adoption has been somewhat less controversial among programmers than writers (or woodworkers); the vast majority of programmers already had a near-total dependence on tools, so another level of abstraction is less of a bridge too far
Feb 22 at 5:04pmWeb
Show threadfedithomFeb 22

@disconcision @art_codesmith

But can we keep the distinction between using something as a tool and using something as the only means to get any work done? @jwcph

Show threadandrew blinnFeb 22
@fedithom @art_codesmith @jwcph agreed that this seems like a meaningful distinction; im saying that for the vast majority of programmers, compilers fall into the category of 'things without which its not possible to get any work done'. writing any machine code at all is a fairly rare skill, and developing non-trivial applications using it is almost non-existent outside of certain specialized sub-domains. this seems to make programming unlike many other arts/crafts, where its the other way around (only certain specific sub-domains basically require specialized tools; many others are doable by hand by most practitioners)
Show threadandrew blinnFeb 22
@fedithom @art_codesmith @jwcph (nb i don't really know how relatively true this is for other crafts in general as opposed to programming. i would assume that somewhat adept at digital painting is probably also decent at hand sketching, but also that many/most painters couldn't make their own paints or brushes. so it likely depends on what part of the skill one considers incidental versus essential)