Mastodawn

Der Dings

@EUCommission Well, you wouldn‘t need additional research if you’d finally enforce a speed limit in whole Europe including Germany.

@aus_der_UBahn @EUCommission

I have heard there are occasionally traffic deaths outside Germany as well. Are you sure speed limits in Germany would decrease their number? Why?

@Tuuktuuk @EUCommission You know what I mean, sorry for the wrong expression. But: I‘m shure there are loads of studies and research in all of the EU countries, and it‘s not a question of knowledge to reduce traffic deaths, but of political will. We have several studies here that found out that it‘s important to lower speed from 50 to 30 in cities, that should be valid everywhere.

@aus_der_UBahn @Tuuktuuk @EUCommission I believe lowering speed limits has - beyond lowering road deaths - other consequences. Time spent on roads is an economic factor. That’s why it is indeed a political issue, not a knowledge issue.

That time difference is negligible. You spend so much time in traffic lights and such, that the average door-to-door speed remains almost unchanged even if you change the urban speed limit from 50 km/h to 30 km/h.

Also, where there are no traffic lights a road has highest throughput at a speed of 50 km/h. Higher than that, and the distance between two cars grows so large that you lose more throughput capacity to that than you win with a higher speed.

On a road prone to jams, 50 km/h can flow just fine while 80 km/h triggers a traffic jam, slowing everything to 30 km/h!

@Tuuktuuk @aus_der_UBahn @EUCommission on an individual level, yes - scaled up to millions of people, I don’t think it is negligible.

When you scale it up to millions of people, then the effects of microparticles and noise start having a notable economic effect. At a speed of 50 km/h the formation of microparticles, mostly from friction between tyres and asphalt, is higher than at 30 km/h, and they also spread further. They increase the number of lung illnesses, which causes higher costs than the cost of lost 1 min per driver.

Then, the cities also become more comfortable to walk, which increases the profit of various cafes and shops along the streets, bringing further economic benefits.

Driving 50 km/h in a city is considered a *lot* more relaxing than driving just 30 km/h. 30 km/h feels sluggish, 50 km/h does not.
There is no noteworthy objective difference in average speeds, but there is a comfort difference! The comfort of life of people driving cars is of course an issue that is good to take into account. The 50 vs 30 km/h is purely a comfort issue, but comfort DOES matter!

@Tuuktuuk @wsmyr @EUCommission The comfort of car drivers? Man, do you live on another planet? Come to Hamburg and have a look at all the memorials along the streets where bikers and pedestrians habe been killed by car drivers! The only way to make cars safe is to ban them.

@aus_der_UBahn @wsmyr @EUCommission

Well, the comfort of car drivers does matter, but to be honest, only rather very little.

It matters, but the comfort of the majority of people living in the city is more important than the comfort of the about 20% to 30% of people who use cars. Big comfort difference for 70 % is more important than a small comfort difference for 30 %.

But yeah: the added comfort for the 30 % does matter. A bit.

@aus_der_UBahn @Tuuktuuk @EUCommission “The only way to make cars safe is to ban them.” Here we go again with the pub talk… what else do you want to ban to keep people safe? Public transport may work for Hamburg and many other metropolitan areas. But Europe doesn’t only consist of those. For rural areas, it is often inefficient and impractical, that is beyond questionable arguments like “comfort”.

Michiel Feb 20

@Tuuktuuk @aus_der_UBahn @EUCommission I can tell you one case, where a schoolmate drove his Porsche at the Autobahn and drove himself to death at 240km/h. With speed limits enforced he would still be alive. At least way more likely. I don’t speed in France as the speed limits are aggressively enforced 🚗===🚓🇫🇷

@michielw @aus_der_UBahn @EUCommission

Personally I'd say even 120 km/h is too high, as the fuel consumption increases so dramatically when you go over 90 km/h. Maybe 100 km/h would be okay, 110 km/h tops. But the difference in consumption between 110 and 120 is so big that 120 isn't worth the extra consumption and pollution.

But:The lack of speed limits on Autobahn is a parade example of what each member state should have autonomy on!

Michiel Feb 20

@Tuuktuuk @aus_der_UBahn @EUCommission yeah agreed on speed. 120km/h doesn’t even make much difference for the typical distances traveled.

Dragofix Feb 22

@Tuuktuuk @aus_der_UBahn @EUCommission Most accidents happen on higher speeds, also more serious harm.

Car harm: A global review of automobility's harm to people and the environment https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0966692324000267

Car harm: A global review of automobility's harm to people and the environment

Despite the widespread harm caused by cars and automobility, governments, corporations, and individuals continue to facilitate it by expanding roads, …

@Dragofix @aus_der_UBahn @EUCommission

Tuukka R Feb 22

That is obvious. But slowing cars down in Germany from 180 km/h to 140 km/h does zilch to reduce the accidents that take place in Finland because of cars driving 120 km/h instead of 100 km/h.

Suggesting solving a EU-wide problem using a solution that only appears to one member state shows an inability to understand that there is life outside Germany.

https://www.udv.de/udv-en/accidents-involving-wild-animals-a-mass-phenomenon-75498

Dragofix Feb 23

@Tuuktuuk @aus_der_UBahn @EUCommission I didn't say to 140 km/h or was talking about Finland, could be much lower EU-wide. It's better for the wildlife too.

There is a better chance for both to survive on lower speed. Crashing on a big animal with over 100 km/h is very dangerous.

Accidents involving wild animals a mass phenomenon

There are over 276,000 collisions with deer and other larger wild animals on German roads every year.

@aus_der_UBahn @EUCommission
Alright, so better rely on your pub talk instead of scientific research?! Germany is the only EU country w/o a general speed limit. As per road safety statistics 2024, with 33 road deaths/million, GER is well below the avg. of 45 deaths/million, although having a higher than avg. population density. How do you get to the conclusion that a speed limit in GER is the main factor for road safety in EU?
https://transport.ec.europa.eu/news-events/news/road-safety-statistics-2024-progress-continues-amid-persistent-challenges-2025-10-17_en

Road Safety Statistics for 2024: Progress continues amid persistent challenges

In 2024, 19,940 people lost their lives in road crashes across the EU, according to latest statistics released by the European Commission today.

Mobility and Transport

Patrick Feb 20

@wsmyr @aus_der_UBahn @EUCommission, by the classic "trust be bro" metric

@ppulfer @wsmyr @EUCommission Sorry, you‘re certainly right that I generalized from Germany to other countries. But there are many studies here that make speed limits responsible for less traffic deaths, e.g. this one, where they said that max. 120 would bring 1/3 less deaths. https://www.wiwi.rub.de/weniger-verkehrstote-durch-tempo-120/

Weniger Verkehrstote durch Tempo 120 - WiWi-Fakultät der Ruhr-Universität Bochum

Die erste große Studie seit fast 50 Jahren belegt: Ein Tempolimit auf Autobahnen würde die Zahl der tödlichen Verkehrsunfälle um mehr als ein Drittel senken. Tempolimits auf deutschen Autobahnen sind ein Riesenzankapfel – Freiheitsberaubung für die einen, lebensrettend für die anderen. Was stimmt denn nun? Nach rund 50 Jahren hat eine Wissenschaftlerin der Ruhr-Universität Bochum nun erstmals neue belastbare Daten gesammelt. Sie zeigen: Tempo 120 würde die Unfälle mit Sc...

WiWi-Fakultät der Ruhr-Universität Bochum

@ppulfer @wsmyr @EUCommission And in English here. That‘s not pub talk. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0965856425002447

Patrick Feb 20

@aus_der_UBahn @wsmyr @EUCommission, according to WHO data, death per capita suggests that speed is not the only factor. For example, deaths in Ireland is way higher than Germany despite the Autobahn. It is road safety standards and education that is the main driver

@aus_der_UBahn @ppulfer @EUCommission This isn’t - your former statement was 😉

@aus_der_UBahn @ppulfer @EUCommission Interesting study! However: "If a speed limit of 120 km/h were applied to all currently unrestricted sections of German autobahns, it would […] save 58 lives each year." This corresponds to a ~2.1% decrease of GER road deaths - considering that this number has decreased by 9% within 5 years without any introduced speed limit, I think there is not much substance to this measure, especially in EU context.