@cato webusb should not exist

@reiddragon idk - usually, the alternative is downloading some random native app, I'd rather have a nicely sandboxed webpage with permission prompts?

@leoluk with a local program the code can't just randomly change overnight like with a website. Websites are also vulnerable to XSS. And also, how is it any semblance of sandboxed if it has direct access to USB devices?

@reiddragon If I give a random website access to a random IoT device (say, the Zigbee stick I just flashed earlier), that gives it access to just that one device. A native app has much broader access and can be vulnerable to all sorts of things.

@leoluk that USB device doesn't interact with just the website, though, and depending on what device you give it access to, it can be used to gain access to much more (ESPECIALLY when you're flashing firmware).

And webusb isn't the only thing; websites also have very direct access to the GPU by default, meaning they can very directly try to exploit bugs in the graphics driver and get access to stuff the browser never gave them access to. And webbluetooth can also be exploited in a manner very similar to webusb

@reiddragon Right, but all of that applies to a native app as well. Having a sandboxed runtime with USB and Bluetooth access is an improvement in my mind. If it didn't exist, users wouldn't stop attaching proprietary peripherals, but they'd instead download a random native (Electron, lol) app instead, which is a much greater security risk.

@leoluk native programs can be verified, and once you know what code you're running, it won't change; websites change all the time without your knowledge - if you're running some code today, you may not be running it tomorrow; and even when the program itself isn't malicious, being in a browser also makes them vulnerable to XSS; a local program won't just randomly change its code, and can't just randomly have code injected remotely from some random site.

@leoluk

> This is true for you and me, but not the average user.

So because the average user is ignorant means we should just accept major security issues?

> a major win over "executing random code"

You're still executing random code. No amount of sandboxing can prevent security issues, as we've seen time and time again whenever applications break out of "sanboxed environments"