Update: They're removing the CLA!! https://www.reddit.com/r/FluxerApp/comments/1r8724q/heads_up_fluxer_has_a_big_red_flag_it_requires/o62u82f/

Fluxer keeps coming up as a Discord alternative. It looks good, but it has one major problem: It's AGPL and it requires a CLA.

That is an enshittification time bomb. I personally will not contribute to projects using that combination, it's gone wrong way too many times.

That's not to say it's bad to use as a hosted service, it being open source at all is better than Discord.

But from an open source point of view, it's not a good licensing setup. It basically creates a system where the project owners have more rights than other contributors. It's not fair.

Edit: For ref, this is the formal CLA:

https://cla-assistant.io/fluxerapp/fluxer

TL;DR "We can do whatever we want with your code, and license it under any license".

Essentially, you should consider any AGPL+CLA project as "source available", not as a true open source project where everyone's contributions are equal.

Of course, at least it's possible to fork since the base license is AGPL.

@lina why is that an "at least"? That a very serious codebase is currently available and no one can take it away is immensely valuable. Owners being able to also use it under any license always seemed like the expectation to me, and seemed reasonable.

I've literally spent over a decade in FOSS before even understanding that e.g. GPL-without-CLA was forbidding that!

@valpackett The point of licenses like the GPL is that *everyone* has the same rights. "Owners" are not special, so they can't rugpull or take advantage of contributors. This is what enables equal forks.

If you fork an AGPL+CLA project, you can't have a CLA any more because the fork does not inherit the special privileges of the original owner. The CLA permanently enshrines the "original" author as superior to everyone else as long as that repo exists.

As a contributor, my expectation is that if I spend my time to contribute to your project for free, that my contribution will not be later be part of a rugpull where the repo owner flips to a commercial enterprise and stops doing FOSS. If there's a CLA that allows them to do that, I won't contribute in the first place.

If they *want* to be able to do that, then the whole repo should be MIT so *everyone else* gets to do that too. It's only fair.

FOSS projects are all about a group of people contributing under an equal license with equal rights. The original author already has leverage in the form of controlling the original community and repo (making a fork succeed isn't easy), they don't need legal leverage on top of that.

@lina That's one of the reasons I cannot recommend contributing directly to Bitwarden because they too require a CLA. Even if they don't plan to ever switch the license or promise that they will keep it free forever if they ever sell their company there is nothing stopping the buyer from doing that. And there should not be a reason to assign all right, title and interest and waive any and all rights to your contributions like that in the first place. https://cla-assistant.io/bitwarden/clients
CLA assistant