sotolf
thedoctor
R.L. Dane 
π΅ 
...and bash instead of zsh
...and grep/awk/sed instead of jq
...and firefox instead of chrome
...and the fediverse instead of facebook
Face it... I'm an unpopular-opinion neckbeard level boss. XD
cc: @mirabilos
@thedoctor @rl_dane @amin @mirabilos At least bash and zsh is comparable to grep ripgrep, as zsh is just a strictly better bash ;)
Amin, minor deity of the legume realm@sotolf @thedoctor @rl_dane @mirabilos
Mm, not really though? ripgrep is meant for bulk grepping of files
@amin @thedoctor @rl_dane @mirabilos I think I had it installed, I just never remembered to use it :p
@sotolf @thedoctor @rl_dane @mirabilos
I mostly just use it to run rg TODO and see all the spots in a codebase I marked as still needing work.
@amin @sotolf @thedoctor @mirabilos
Why is ripgrep better than just grep -R?
kabel42@rl_dane @amin @sotolf @thedoctor @mirabilos it's somehow a lot faster if you want to grep a few GiB of code, like 15 minutes to 30 seconds
@kabel42 @amin @sotolf @thedoctor @mirabilos
Interesting! I wonder what kind of algorithmic optimizations (as opposed to compiler optimizations) they're using to do that, and if regular (GNU/BSD) grep could do the same.
Because I'll wear clown shoes and a tutu before changing to a "rewrite the world in rust!" utility π
@rl_dane @amin @sotolf @thedoctor @mirabilos From what little i have read, some assumptions about what you are greping and different defaults. Doing the same in existing grep would probably break compatibility.
mirabilos@kabel42 @rl_dane @amin @sotolf @thedoctor eww, itβs not even a drop-in thenβ¦
(For not-a-drop-in, I found pcregrep interesting. Sadly, Debian recently dropped it, but in the versions which donβt have pcregrep any more, you can use grep -P for many use cases. pcre2grep is not a drop-in for pcregrep eitherβ¦)
@mirabilos @kabel42 @amin @sotolf @thedoctor
I was a total PCRE stan in the olden days, but I've steered more towards regular extended regexp for compatibility. I do miss \d, \w and \s, though. [[:space:]] feels so clumsy to type and use several times in a regex, I'll sometimes put a sp="[[:space:]]" line at the start of a script, and you'll see several invocations of "${sp}" in my regex strings.
But again... compatibility. ;)
Is there a big difference between (GNU) grep -P and pcregrep? I hadn't heard of that utility before.
@amin @kabel42 @rl_dane @sotolf @thedoctor I never used \d and the likes, always felt them much too complicated. I almost never use POSIX character classes (besides the BSD [[:<:]] and [[:>:]]), rather I just hit [ tab space ] quickly.
GNU grep -P does a PCRE grep, it doesnβt support all of the extra flags of pcregrep though, and before the version in IIRC trixie was very broken.
@mirabilos @amin @kabel42 @sotolf @thedoctor
is [[:<:]] and [[:>:]] the same as \< and \>?
@rl_dane @amin @kabel42 @sotolf @thedoctor obviously not, because itβs written differently ;)
re_format(7) knows:
There are two special cases** of bracket expressions: the bracket expres-
sions '[[:<:]]' and '[[:>:]]' match the null string at the beginning and
end of a word, respectively. A word is defined as a sequence of charac-
ters starting and ending with a word character which is neither preceded
nor followed by word characters. A word character is an alnum character
(as defined by ctype(3)) or an underscore. This is an extension, compati-
ble with but not specified by POSIX, and should be used with caution in
software intended to be portable to other systems.
(as for the mark:)
POSIX leaves some aspects of RE syntax and semantics open; '**' marks de-
cisions on these aspects that may not be fully portable to other POSIX
implementations.
The definition for \< / \> differs between less, perlre, pcre, β¦ I believe, but they all are somewhat simiar.
@rl_dane @amin @kabel42 @sotolf @thedoctor perlre(1) actually hasβ¦
A word boundary ("\b") is a spot between two characters that
has a "\w" on one side of it and a "\W" on the other side of
it (in either order), counting the imaginary characters off
the beginning and end of the string as matching a "\W".
β¦ so the \< probably comes from less(1)?
β¦ hm, no. But, where then?
@mirabilos @amin @kabel42 @sotolf @thedoctor
I used to use \b a lot, but \< and \> are just as easy to use, and POSIX. ;)
\w is nice, though. I think the closest POSIX one is [[:graph:]]? (Not super close, though)
@rl_dane @amin @kabel42 @sotolf @thedoctor \< and \> are not POSIX.
perlre(1) \w is identical to POSIX [a-zA-Z0-9_] in the C locale, so [[:alnum:]_] if you have support for POSIX character classes.
@mirabilos @amin @kabel42 @sotolf @thedoctor
Ah, yes. [[:alnum:]] was the one I was thinking of.
@mirabilos @amin @kabel42 @sotolf @thedoctor
Waiiiiit, what does the underscore before the second bracket do? I've never seen that before.
No mention of it in RE_FORMAT(7) on FreeBSD.
@rl_dane @amin @kabel42 @sotolf @thedoctor the exact same thing as the underscore in
[a-zA-Z0-9_], and Iβd be surprised if the FreeBSD manpage would not document it@rl_dane @amin @kabel42 @sotolf @thedoctor let me blow your mind if that was news to you:
[[:alpha:][:digit:]_]
@mirabilos @rl_dane @amin @sotolf @thedoctor yay context sensitive [], there is no way that can go wrong \s
@kabel42 @rl_dane @amin @sotolf @thedoctor itβs actually not, the first unescaped
[ switches from RE context to RE-Bracket context in the bracket-begin state, in which you can have an optional ^ (except in shellglobs where it is spelt !), then an optional ] not taken as the end of the RE-Bracket, then an optional -, then any amount of expressions of the type a-z, [:charclass:], [=equivalenceclass=], x, then an optional -, then a closing ] which terminates the RE-Bracket context.@kabel42 @rl_dane @amin @sotolf @thedoctor (I erred: you can have either the
] or the - at the beginning, not both)@kabel42 @rl_dane @amin @sotolf @thedoctor (and I forgot collating elements, which is totally fucked up,
[a[.ch.]] in e.g. es_ES.UTF-8 matches either a or ch, so a bracket expression in POSIX has a variable matching lengthβ¦)@kabel42 @rl_dane @amin @sotolf @thedoctor tbh the only time I use something other than simple chars and ranges in bracket expressions is the BSD
[[:<:]] and [[:>:]] extension (which matches a zero-length string)@kabel42 @rl_dane @amin @sotolf @thedoctor no, the zero-length string between a nΕn-wordβ and a word character
@kabel42 @mirabilos @amin @sotolf @thedoctor
Basically spaces and punctuation.
@kabel42 @rl_dane @amin @sotolf @thedoctor no,
[^char-class] matches βany single character, other than newline, not in char-classβ@mirabilos @rl_dane @amin @sotolf @thedoctor yeah, basically what i meant except for the newline maybe
@kabel42 @rl_dane @amin @sotolf @thedoctor yea, Iβm just pedantic.
In the RE ^foo[^bar^]baz$ there technically are exactly two carets.
@kabel42 @rl_dane @amin @sotolf @thedoctor this is important when you want to include a
] or - in a bracket expression, and for the newline ofc.@mirabilos @kabel42 @amin @sotolf @thedoctor
Don't you have to backslash escape a right bracket, like [a-z\]]?
@sotolf @thedoctor @amin @rl_dane @kabel42 not if itβs the first character of a bracket expression, like
[]a-z]@mirabilos @sotolf @thedoctor @amin @kabel42
Ahhhh, good to know. Mentally filed. ;)
@kabel42 @amin @thedoctor @sotolf @rl_dane I often go through logs by first cutting off timestamp
and host using rectangle mode in jupp, then replacing ^([^ ]*)\[[^]]*\]: with \1: and sort -uing.
Iβve also used [][0-9a-fA-F:] to match IP addressesβ¦
@mirabilos @kabel42 @amin @thedoctor @sotolf
I love editors with rectangle selection and editing modes. vim has it, and my first exposure to it was actually in Microsoft Word 4.0 for mac. Obviously not something I use today. XD
@rl_dane @mirabilos @amin @thedoctor @sotolf kate had that for a time and now i can't find it anymore... :(
@mirabilos @kabel42 @sotolf @thedoctor @amin
Respect to your efforts, but for me, it's modal editing or die. XD
@rl_dane @kabel42 @sotolf @thedoctor @amin just imagine ^K and ^Q as starting the action and movement modes, respectively, and otherwise youβre in insert mode, with a few shortcuts
@mirabilos @kabel42 @sotolf @thedoctor @amin
Maybe if I had caps lock mapped to control, rather than escape. ;)
@thedoctor @kabel42 @amin @rl_dane @sotolf solvable problem ;) PCs (including my first) did have Control there, after all
@mirabilos @thedoctor @kabel42 @amin @sotolf
I don't recall seeing anything other than unix terminals and workstations with control to the left of "A"
But yeah, capslock is a dumb key, or at least, that's a dumb placement for it. ;)
@rl_dane @thedoctor @kabel42 @amin @sotolf https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IBM_Model_F_XT.png used to be the standard layout for PCs, though the F keys could also go up to where they are now (only up to and including F10, mind you)
@mirabilos @thedoctor @kabel42 @amin @sotolf
Maybe? I'm half a century, roughly. ;)
@mirabilos @thedoctor @kabel42 @amin @sotolf
Ah, yes, that was the very first IBM PC keyboard, the one that didn't have dedicated arrow keys. I never spent much time in front of one (possibly none, not sure), but I was aware of it.
I just didn't realize it had Ctrl in the "correct" position. ^___^
@mirabilos @thedoctor @kabel42 @amin @sotolf
Whoa, there's some seriously unused space on the surface of that keyboard. XD
Someone should have showed them the Amiga 500 ;)
@rl_dane @thedoctor @kabel42 @amin @sotolf huh,
Not much, just the palm rest and where the winkeys are these days.
@mirabilos @rl_dane @thedoctor @kabel42 @amin I think he means to the right where the diskette station ist, but it makes sense, because I think the Schneider PC has all the guts in the keyboard.
@rl_dane @thedoctor @kabel42 @amin @sotolf ah but the whole thing is just as high as needed to fit the floppy disc drive.
All the guts are under the keyboard, INCLUDING an ISA slot for extension cards (out of the back at the very left), and all the connectors (HGC/CGA TTL monitor, serial, parallel, power, external HDD connector, external second FDD connector) are also on the back, as is the power button.
@kabel42 @mirabilos @amin @thedoctor @sotolf
Looking online... is it ctrl+shift+B?
@thedoctor @rl_dane @kabel42 @sotolf @amin why not?
@bentsukun made the first editions of the MirBSD flyers in Quark Xpress on MacOS.