metallic_substanceWhat's going on with the lemmy world and ML infighting
potoooooooo ✅️The stereotype is that Lemmy.ml wants to play with Stalin’s balls. Lemmy.world wants to play with, I don’t know, Obama’s balls? With Bernie, Bill Clinton, and Reagan watching from the corner?
Something like that, anyway.
World is after ML for being Stalinists and ML is after World for not being Stalinists hah
OpenStarsNo, Leninism is different. Marxism-Leninism specifically was a creation of Stalin.
Marxism–Leninism was developed from Bolshevism by Joseph Stalin in the 1920s based on his understanding and synthesis of classical Marxism and Leninism.
When talking about Stalinism people often means not just that ideology but also the brutal way it was implemented and how the country was ruled
Stalinism is the means of governing and Marxist–Leninist policies implemented in the Soviet Union (USSR) from 1927 to 1953 by Joseph Stalin. It included the creation of a one-party totalitarian police state, rapid industrialization, the theory of socialism in one country (until 1939), forced collectivization of agriculture, intensification of class conflict, a cult of personality,[1][2] and subordination of the interests of foreign communist parties to those of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, deemed by Stalinism to be the leading vanguard party of communist revolution at the time.
Cowbee [he/they]Marxism-Leninism was synthesized by Stalin, but like the name suggests, is over 90% Marx and Lenin. Stalinism is typically used coherently to describe the policies of the Stalin-Era of the USSR. Those calling Marxism-Leninism “Stalinism” typically are trying to use Stalin’s name as a way to bash Marx and Lenin’s theories and practice.
Not really sure why you’re acting like it’s unexpected to be corrected on a misconception.
Amazing.
Clairvoyancy is just one of my many skills. Another prediction: this chain won’t stop until I stop it because you want to have the last word. It sounds crazy but just wait and see
WAIT LET ME IN I WANT TO HAVE THE LAST WORD IS IT TOO LATE!!!
And Stalin’s out for both of 'm just cuz gulags are fun.
AntiOutsideAktionHEY ML WHAT POLITICIAN WOULD YOU DESCRIBE US SUPPORTING IN VAGUELY HOMOPHOBIC TERMS?
ML: …
LibertyLizardLong-standing political differences and an extremely censorious moderation philosophy on Lemmy.ml means there is always tension. I’m not aware of any specific thing that has happened recently.
there was a big post yesterday about ‘rent is theft’ that had 100s of comments, that was mostly .world vs .ml users.
the .ml users basically harassed and threatened the .world users who were talking about reasonable reforms on housing prices and the causes for housing price inflation.
I mean, if they all want to move to Russia or North Korea or China, go right ahead, I am not stopping anyone from chasing their bliss. Perhaps I should note that they will end up as fodder for a warlord’s lust for conquest, but at the end of the day that is not my call to make as to what to do with your lives.
But damnit I would like to have some tint amount of control about what to do with my own! Including the ability to block them, if I happen to want that. I almost left Lemmy over precisely this issue, preferring instead to simply read books offline than to have to wade through endless immature eternity of September crap. Fortunately, that’s exactly when PieFed started coming up, offering an alternative besides Mbin, and which now offers a heck of a lot more features than either of them.
Diva (she/her)“you don’t like it, leave”
you sound like pretty much every conservative I’ve interacted with.
Naa we’re just tired of you tankies spewing authoritarian propaganda… you’re just maga’s that wear hammer and sickle patches.
I’m an anarchist, these days ‘tankie’ is just an epithet used by campist liberals towards ‘disloyal’ communists and anarchists at home.
There’s a twisted irony that the so-called’tankies’ are the ones most opposed to america sending in the tanks
No…no it’s not. You tankies are called that because you eat propaganda from authoritarian regimes in the name of communism. You’re just maga with a hammer and sickle logo
Diva is a tankie, not an anarchist. They simp for russia and blame Ukraine for getting invaded. They just don’t like being called a tankie anymore so they jumped to the anarchist label…kinda like maga does with libertarian.
I use she/her tyvm
These days ‘tankie’ is just an epithet used by campist liberals blue MAGA towards ‘disloyal’ communists and anarchists at home.
You’re just maga with a hammer and sickle logo
Literally a straw person you’ve made up and are attacking.
you eat propaganda from authoritarian regimes
I evaluate all propaganda critically, be it from the authoritarian regime i live in (the US), or some other one
Tbh the closest thing to behaving like MAGA is you, more of a blue MAGA
lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/23064271/13346496
Lol no you do not. You drink the propaganda. Stop acting like you’re not a tankie. You shill for Putin and russia and china… there’s a thread where you got banned for blaming Ukraine for being invaded lol
You just don’t like being called a tankie, so you jumped to the anarchist label… kinda like maga chodes do with libertarian…
Calling me blue maga is hilarious though, another tankie term, which is more bullshit. Trolls like you helped get the turnip regime installed, and more of Palestine destroyed.
That link doesn’t work for me.
You just don’t like being called a tankie, so you jumped to the anarchist label… kinda like maga chodes do with libertarian…
Sweaty I’ve been an anarchist for decades at this point, I’m an anarchist because that’s my values and that’s how I organize IRL. Just because some turbo-liberals and crypto-fascists online don’t like my opinions doesn’t change that.
“Islam knows no peace”, you sound more like the latter:
there’s a thread where you got banned for blaming Ukraine for being invaded lol
here’s what I said:
same with Ukraine and Russia
this literally is the position I have, Ukraine defending themselves from an invasion was justifiable, just as their separatists defending themselves from the government attacking them also were justified.
Calling it a genocide when Gaza is going on is worthy of ridicule though. plus if anyone’s getting targeted for elimination it’s all the Russian speakers getting kidnapped by recruitment officers to get sent to the front.
I stand by that, pughitler didn’t like it though.
Lol you simp for russia who invaded Ukraine and you then have the gall to be like “it’s Ukraines fault” and we shouldn’t be worried about it while Gaza is getting destroyed…
You’re a tankie, you have no clue what you really stand for because you don’t know how the world works, how humans work. Just like every other tankie.
And you bringing up the fact that I said Islam knows no peace is what again? It currently is the most violent religion on the planet, just as tankies are the most brainwashed edgelords who live in western societies all nice and warm behind a keyboard. End of the day, while you think you’ll be in some high level position running your utopia, mass executing people who resist, you’ll be the ones digging holes, because you’re only smart enough to eat the propaganda and push out insane ideas… you’re useless past that to the CCP/russia/NK.
me:
Ukraine defending themselves from an invasion was justifiable
you:
you simp for russia who invaded Ukraine
You seem incapable of engaging with anything I actually say or do, preferring to make up shit I haven’t said or done to attack instead.
Are you having trouble reading what I’m saying or are you not bothering? Either way not beating the blue maga allegations.
It currently is the most violent religion on the planet
brainwashed edgelords
You are describing yourself, are you trapped in a hall of mirrors? Do you need help?
Because you don’t say anything other than tankie talking points defending russia and the CCP…and then say you’re an anarchist lol you’re a tankie.
These days ‘tankie’ is just an epithet used by campist liberals blue MAGA towards ‘disloyal’ communists and anarchists at home.
I’m not sure if there’s anything new, just seems to be the standard liberal/leftist beef.
Is that really how you view this? I don’t want to start a big argument but I don’t find that summary accurate at all.
Yes, generally. I can be more specific and say “western progressive/Marxist” beef, ie beef between western progressives and Marxists, but that beef is also just generally the liberal/leftist beef.
I’m not really looking for a fight, either, nor an argument. I generally value productive dialogue, but often that gets shut down by people that don’t want that, so it spirals into arguments. See this “exchange” as an example.
I know you are usually polite which I appreciate. But I gotta say it’s not how I would frame it. More like MLs vs. the world. Plenty of leftists on the outside here.
but the censorship makes it impossible.
the vast majority of the time I look into the supposed censorship on .ml it’s someone being bigoted or insulting the person they’re responding to
If people are being bigoted, xenophobic, insulting people, while also badmouthing US state enemies they’ll tend to get banned for their bigotry/xenophobia and then go and cry about how their unique individual opinion was censored.
Yeah because you consider any criticism of your ideas or allied governments “bigotry”. It’s absurd.
Diva is an anarchist.
In my experience, the ones that get truly censored are the ones that either are insistent on repeating outright misinformation, or genuinely break the rules via ableism, racism, homophobia, etc. I speak with plenty of people that disagree with me on Lemmy.ml, and they usually only get temp-banned if they do one of those things. Permabanning is more for repeat offenses.
As for it being MLs vs. the world, that really isn’t my experience either. I organize in real life with people that don’t align with me 100% all the time, and when I’m on Hexbear I obviously get along with Maoists, anarchists, etc. as well. The source of major beef between lemmy.world specifically and Lemmy.ml specifically is as I said, western progressive liberal vs. Marxists, or even more generally liberal vs. leftist.
If there’s something you’re interested in discussing, I’m fine to do so, but I don’t normally like engaging in spaces that defederate from Hex and Grad, ie apply a blanket firewall against the majority of Marxists on Lemmy. Discussion in non-Marxist spaces, where the majority of commenters are insulated from Marxists, usually results in the kind of slapfighting you see all over this thread over real conversation.
In spaces that actually allow strong Marxist participation, discussion around Marxism is more intricate, such as this conversation about the subject of “Dengism” I had with someone more critical of China over on Lemmygrad. This is just one example, but it isn’t just a one-sided censorship campaign. I have been permabanned from Political Memes for pointing out the DNC’s participation in the Palestinian genocide, and from every comm PugJesus moderates because they lost an argument in an unrelated comm. I’m banned from Memes of Production for “voting while tankie,” because Deceptichum defended Hungarian Nazis for opposing the soviets. It’s tiring.
All in all, I mean this to say that discussion goes both ways, and it isn’t simply because Lemmy.ml unilaterally censors.
How the fuck do people read texts like 'On Practice', 'Oppose Book Worship', and 'On the correct handling of Contradictions among people' and still spout dogmatic views on China? - Lemmygrad
From Engels to Lenin to Mao, all have expressed their sheer repulsion towards dogmatism. Mao has even written one text after another and spoken in multiple meetings about battling this problem in the party. He, along with other materialists, has made it clear that the Markets are a historical category that have existed since before capitalism. Capitalism =/= Commerce. Then how is it some Marxists who claim to have read theory call China capitalist and label its supporters as ‘Dengists’? Socialists created the fastest growing economy ever observed in human history that lifted hundreds of millions of people out of absolute poverty. And now these dogmatists wanna give its credit to capitalism!? Their entire prejudice is based on the misconception that Deng Xioping did not follow on Mao’s thoughts. Deng literally heeded Maoist ideas such as “Let a hundred flowers bloom, let a hundred schools of thought contend” and “The masses are the real heroes, while we ourselves are often childish and ignorant”. He built the productive forces for the Chinese people based on—not in spite of—the continuing influence of Mao Zedong’s ideology. Now Xi Jingping is continuing both of their legacies. So people who make such non-materialist and often times liberal critique of the Chinese economy have either not read theory or did not develop any dialectical and historical materialism to understand the theory! As Marxists and materialists, it is our responsibility to confront these reductionist elements in our movement and bring back the pendulum at its correct course when it swings too much to either sides; right-wing revisionism or left-wing dogmatism. > “No investigation, no right to speak.” - Mao Zedong
Lemmy.world is a den full of libs who will wholeheartedly approve of any meager band-aid solutions over the festering wounds of our western economic systems, even if it continues to make it worse, provided it’s not quite as terrible as whatever the fascists over the other side of the aisle propose.
Lemmy.ml is a den full of marxist-leninist tankies who will wholeheartedly support any authoritarian and imperialist regime provided it’s an enemy of most imperialist state of them all : the USA.
Your kdr isn’t very good, but your engagement is impressive!
Lemmy is a link aggregator and the Fediverse’s left-wing replacement for Reddit. Politically, it fills a role similar to Truth Social, just on the opposite end of the spectrum, whether users like to admit that or not. In practice, Lemmy is deeply ideologically fragmented. lemmy.world tends to attract liberals and social democrats, while lemmy.ml, which brands itself as Marxist-Leninist, is effectively a hub for authoritarian-left enthusiasts: open admirers of regimes such as China, Russia, North Korea, and Cuba. The hostility between these camps is constant and mutual. ML users dismiss World users as “libs,” while World users fire back by calling ML “tankies.” ML views World as hopelessly moderate and compromised by liberalism; World views ML as extremist, dogmatic, and dangerously apologetic toward authoritarian states. The irony is that both sides are radical in their own ways. One faction is entrenched in authoritarian apologism, while the other occupies an insulated, ideologically homogeneous bubble that still sits far outside mainstream political discourse.
This post is a good example of said slander/infighting, as MLs are inherently not dogmatic, and having consistent values is painted as being homogenous.
One of your recent comments quite literally hits the hallmarks of both dogmatism and ideological homogeneity; a pretty intense example of the kind of rhetoric common in highly polarized online spaces.
Big push to move off of American sites in response to Trump. So lots of Europeans and what not are joining here.
slothropWhat does that have to do with being dogmatic?
I haven’t been here long but I’ve met both nice people and debate-pilled dunk lords from many instances. Except ml. It was just dunk lords
.ml users engage in a lot of violent fantasizing of mass murder and state sponsored violence such that everyone believes what they believe.
.world users aren’t screaming about murdering people.
This is an absurd caricature of Marxism-Leninism and liberalism.
I just want to add to the discussion that I think it’s perfectly healthy if two instances don’t like each other and/or have different outlooks - it’s the beauty of the fediverse and having decentralisation that they don’t have to agree on everything.