OndoreBrazil shocked to find that 13,000 students about to graduate from medical school lack basic knowledge to practice medicine
It’s no surprise that federal public universities have received the highest marks; they are universally recognized as the best. But the evaluation of medical programs has also revealed that tuition fees can be inversely proportional to the quality of the education being offered. Medicine schools that scored the lowest (1 or 2 on a scale of 1-5) charge each student between $1,100 and $2,600 a month, according to a detailed analysis by Veja magazine. This is veritable fortune in a country where the minimum wage is $313 a month.
How can you charge so much compared to their minimum wage and still be so bad?
☂️-not at all. this is how private education costs in brazil. most students go in debt to do it.
the trust fund babies are actually in public university, because they had the better education to pass the hard exams in the first place.
this, 100% correct, I am a brazillian
I have somehow managed to get in a prestigeous a public university in one of the most best campus they have, (though unfortanely in a course that I hate and didnt want to get) and this is genuinely as someone that comes from a self subsistance farmer family the first time I have seen macbooks and ipads in my life (they are seen as status symbols here)
there are state mandated quotas of slots designated exclusively to students that have studied in public highschools and for black or mixed students, inclusion programs for low income students that provide up to half a minimum wage, housing and free food
it is common to say that public universities here are for the rich because, for the most part they are, even with all the support poorer students get, they are still a minority, you will see expensive cars roaming arround in the campus being driven by people who clearly got the drivers license yesterday and dont know what fuck theybare doing, and rich kids outright paying to get help cheating in tests
Ah, the American approach
KristellI mean… American minimum wage comes out to $1256 monthly (assuming full-time, and that’s pre-tax). Community college comes in pretty cheap at $450 a month on average, but four year universities come up to $4,800 on average (assuming full-time enrollment for both). The cheapest MD programs I can find are still close to twice the minimum wage, and that’s assuming you get in-state tuition, since out of state is usually 2-3x more.
atomicorangeStudents that are paying a fortune can expect and demand high grades for little work, they’re paying extra for the “deluxe” degree where all the hard stuff is done for them. It’s really common with for-profit universities.
wonderingwandererExactly. That’s why the commodification of education is a travesty that can’t be overstated…
I’ve found in higher education that many programs that act as diploma mills charge a lot because they can. They know the students are just looking for the degree and that the school is probably their only choice.
kinda like carribean ones, and likely wont be eligble for praticing medicine in the states, because they have much more stringent requirements, which tend to ignore “diploma-mill like medical schools”
fun fact the minimum wage is yearly readjusted and based on the cost of common basic items
how is it so bad? I have no fucking clue, we have chronic critical shortage of medics since as far as I can remember
the only exception to that were the few doctors from cuba we had, though seem to have disappeared, unsure why, maybe they just became brazillians
graduate
lack basic knowledge
Why are they graduating in the first place? Who is passing these students? Stop passing students who can’t show they learned anything, maybe? Novel idea, I know.
It’s mostly private institutions passing people because they just care about the money and nothing else.
Middle of the article:
The medicine schools with the worst scores are mostly municipally owned (created and managed by city councils) or …
Sooo…
Cherry picking huh? Municipal are the smallest and least funded public universities here, the major institutions are all state and federal level, to be honest I didn’t even know there were municipal ones.
“It’s no surprise that federal public universities have received the highest marks; they are universally recognized as the best. But the evaluation of medical programs has also revealed that tuition fees can be inversely proportional to the quality of the education being offered. Medicine schools that scored the lowest (1 or 2 on a scale of 1-5) charge each student between $1,100 and $2,600 a month, according to a detailed analysis by Veja magazine. This is veritable fortune in a country where the minimum wage is $313 a month.”
Corruuuuuption!
Americans, pay attention, because this is where you’re headed in speed run fashion
They… Are? Seems like a lot of people responding aren’t reading the article, so:
- Brazil is huge, and has the largest public healthcare system in the world.
- This is the first time they’ve conducted a national test against medical universities
- They are not punishing students, but the universities, and restricting new enrollment at them
And no, they are not all private institutions.
Seems like a lot of people responding aren’t reading the article, so
You’re insinuating I didn’t read the article. 😛 But you’re right, I didn’t, because the statement I was referring to is right in the title.
Guy IngonitoAlways take these stories with a grain of salt. Especially with a salacious headline such as “organization shocked”
Something I think about after seeing such titles is the fact that education system curriculums have gotten insane around the world. Kids study 3 times more than what I had to study back then. Nearly all are failing. We are really pushing the human limits here.
Yeah that’s what I’ve been saving for at least a decade. Every company I worked for has feature creep in what you are expected to be an expert in and at a certain point you don’t actually know anything you’re just vaguely aware of a lot of different things.
InternetCitizen2you’re just vaguely aware of a lot of different things.
Same
Shove off.
Article is about Brazil.
Talks about Canada.
Wtf?
Article is posted to the “world wide web” where mouth-breathing simpletons from around the world dare to comment.
Wtf?
I talked about Quebec.
Wtf?
Article talks about medical students, so did I.
Wtf?
I have analyzed your cerebral capacity to be exactly what modern medicine needs! Have you considered medical school? You’re a shoo-in!
OozingPositronWhat did the Quebecois do to you?
Nothing, I’m a Quebecer maudit tabarnak, I can call ourselves the P word if I want. Heck if our esteemed PM could call us a “bande de mangeux de hot dogs”, what’s the problem?
campbellstrategies.com/…/mangeur-de-hot-dogs/
And for the record, if you’re having difficulties parsing paragraphs, this story is about medical students, why would you infer I am talking about the whole province?
Oh you’re from Quebec? My condolences
Meh, it just says new exam was introduces and a lot of students failed. This just means the schools are not good at preparing students for this exam, not that they don’t prepare for practicing medicine. I would say it’s normal that universities will need time to adapt their courses to the requirements of the exams. Maybe students are not well prepared for the format or maybe the just need to put greater focus on different parts of the curriculum. I don’t think this means that graduates are somehow less prepared, just that the new exam is another barrier for them to begin practice which means it will slow down induction of new doctors into the workforce. Hopefully they will adapt fast and this will not have any long term repercussions.
Framed differently, it could mean the new exam is a poor indicator of readiness to practice medicine.
It could be either way.
In a for profit setting when those who do the work are the very same people/institutions who measure the quality of that work (in this case schools which both teach something and then measure how well that something was taught), it’s not at all uncommon that the measuring methodology gets changed over time to yield better results for the same work rather than the work changing to improve the results in the existing measurement methodology.
This is why independent measuring of results is a thing.
In this case to know for sure we would have to get the opinions of existing medical practicioners who have worked side by side with students from these and other schools - if they tend to see students from these schools as worse prepared than those from other schools, then this outcome is probably the kind of situation I describe above.
But are there parents rich?
depends,
in Brazil, public universities are mostly attended by the rich for free
paid ones are usually also mostly attenddd by the rich though on average less rich
the reason? even though there extremely generous inclusion programs and quotas for poor and students that studied in public education system their whole lives the public universities are very competitive and hard to get into and since the basic public school system is utter garbage any student from private schools is at a huge advantage
Well that’s the whole problem because it’s not merit it’s entitlement and cronyism