sheepscreekFeb 4
Yep. Democracy is working according to a non-minority in the country. Agree to disagree?
Show threadmystralineFeb 4

Sure. I'll bite.

The majority in this country is "didn't vote". Multitudes of reasons for this.

They forgot.

They dont care.

They missed the registration deadline.

They're homeless, and no address.

They can't get proper papers, even though they are US born.

They're in prison/jail.

The candidates suck, so you dont vote.

Can't afford to take time off work.

They've been gerrymandered, so their votes are significantly degraded.

To think that the minority segment that, due to election game rules and FPTP, that a minority of the minority somehow reflects a majority? I wholly reject that.

Show threadpton_xdFeb 4

It's always been this way. According to Google 64% of the voting age population voted in 2024. In 1972 it was 56%, in 1976 it was 55%, in 1980 it was 55%, in 1984 it was 56%... you get the idea [0].

[0] https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/vitalst...

Show threadmystralineFeb 4

"This is how its always been" is one of the banes of my existence. It explains why we're here, but not how to do better.

There are ways to do better. A national holiday for elections has been mentioned countless times.

We could do like Australia and mandate required voting.

Prisoners should be able to vote. But this country is too hell-bent on punishment.

Registration can be made on the same day of voting, rather than some states require 30 days, and others per state.

But in reality, none of these are done. Changes are glacial, if they do happen.

But these would all increase a democratic choice. Right now, its a horrendously gamified minority of a minority who decides, based on electoral college results.

Show threadrayinerFeb 4
[flagged]
Show threadmystraline

> Of course prisoners should not be allowed to vote, for the same reason as children.

Prisoners in jail can be there for a multitude of reasons. But the main difference is that they were likely of voting age. Some states even do allow prisoners to vote. Who more than anyone here is subject to its laws than people imprisoned?

It also naturally penalizes poor people, since they demonstrably get less 'legal equality', and thus go to prison more.

As for children. Thats a different issue. The moment this government(s) started tried children as adults is when and the voting age should have been lowered to the age of 'tried as an adult'.

> Expanding the electorate for the sake of expanding it doesn’t make the result better.

So, you do not believe or accept democratic principles.

It is no different than "get enough eyeballs on a problem, and every problem is shallow".

> Instead, the electorate should be narrowed to property owning people who have an IQ above 85 (within one SD of median) and two grandparents born in the U.S. (so culturally assimilated).

Holy crap, the dog whistles.

Sprinkle phrenology (IQ) in there. Used to defend treating black people as slaves cause "we(royal) were doing them a favor"

Literally grandfather clause, which disenfranchised former slaves.

And property-owning, so a strong retreat to royalist 2nd son tradition. Pray tell, you are only talking about land with property-owning, right?

Feb 4 at 1:39pmWeb
Show threadrayinerFeb 4

Prisoners can’t vote because they’re mostly bad people who shouldn’t get a say in how the country is run. It’s not incompatible with democracy to recognize that children aren’t smart enough to vote. So why is it incompatible with democracy to recognize other people shouldn’t be allowed to vote, due to low IQ or criminal behavior or whatever—as long as the criterion itself is meaningful?

IQ isn’t “phrenology.” It’s one of the most well established facts in social science. The military uses what’s essentially an IQ test to exclude people from serving in the military. If the military thinks you’re unable to serve competently, why should you be allowed to vote?

Similarly, limiting the vote to people with deep roots in America would give black people on average more power. Black Americans whose families have centuries of experience with American culture should have more of a say than my parents who came to America at 40 and have no cultural experience with participating in democracy. It’s an extension of something that’s already in the constitution: requiring the president to be a natural born citizen. We already recognize that depth of roots in the country are important.

Show threadtptacekFeb 4
You don't believe in social science. Sorry, I mean social "science". It feels like it'd be rude to quote you on that point, but it's one of your most consistent arguments and it's not reasonable to expect people not to notice the special pleading you're doing around it. It'd be like me suddenly talking about the virtues of DNSSEC.