Steph (crisis version)Feb 3

My dad and I started watching Once Upon A Time In Northern Ireland today, on his request. We've only seen the first episode, but it's good.

It's very good, actually.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/p0ff7cg0/once-upon-a-time-in-northern-ireland

Once Upon a Time in Northern Ireland

Personal stories of conflict and peace. 25 years on from the end of the Troubles, those who lived through it share intimate, unheard testimonies - and reflect on its legacy.

BBC iPlayer
Show threadSteph (crisis version)Feb 3

I appreciate that the BBC left the swearing in. If you can't swear about the Troubles, what the fuck can you swear about?

Besides, telling someone from here not to swear when they talk is like telling them not to blink. You'll only make them uncomfortable and they'll end up doing it anyway.

Show threadSteph (crisis version)Feb 3

It's always a bit jarring to me when I see folk complain about bad language online, using phrases like "nobody has to use those words" and "it's always vulgar" and "it sounds uneducated".

Please understand: that is cultural bias.

Show threadSteph (crisis version)Feb 3

it's also classist as fuck, imo, but I am told I need to stop turning everything into a class issue

(everything IS a class issue, you can fight me AND the chip on my shoulder)

Show threadSteph (crisis version)Feb 3

Every British person does a subconscious class calculation when they meet someone, whether they admit to it or not. You want to know if someone is "like you" so you know how to speak to them and how to relate to them. But I mess up the calculations. I've got too many middle-class indicators now from being highly educated. (That's classism for you!) So swearing is, for me, often a way to reassure someone working-class that we're on the same level and can relate to each other as such.

It's annoying, though. I don't get angry at people much, but a close colleague once tried to joke that the Pulp song Common People was about me, having gotten the impression that my working-class indicators were the pretension, and not the middle-class ones. The idea that I might read as one of those fucking idiots who pretends to be working-class because they think it's "cool" drives me round the bend.

Show threadSteph (crisis version)Feb 3

I also feel I need to explain, for Americans and other strange creatures, that class in Britain has absolutely nothing to do with how much money you have. You're born into a class and you're not getting out of it. It's your upbringing and your background and your language and your culture.

Your kids might be of a different class to you. Your grandkids certainly can be. But you're stuck with where you're born, and British society tends not to like it if you pretend otherwise.

Do not take this explanation for approval.

Show threadJules she/herFeb 3
@astronomerritt also for the benefit of Americans, what class your job is has nothing to do with how much money it pays. Librarian, teacher, scientist are all middle class jobs that pay very little. Plumber, electrician, owning a business like a hairdresser or shop are all working class but probably mean you're significantly better off. What determines the class of the job is whether you or your family had to invest money in university or an internship to get it
Show threadJules she/herFeb 3
@astronomerritt And the class of your job doesn't change your class, it determines your kids' class
Show threadSteph (crisis version)Feb 3
@afewbugs The depressing thing is that taken objectively this is all unhinged and yet it feels perfectly normal and obvious to me.
Show threadJules she/herFeb 3
@astronomerritt absolutely, it's all completely batshit insane but we all just grow up absorbing it
Show threadJules she/herFeb 3
@astronomerritt and actually you know it would be kind of fascinating from an anthropological perspective if like an alien landed in Britain and went "Okay so there's one group of humans who shop at Waitrose and watch Mary Beard documentaries, and one group who shop at Iceland and watch Coronation Street, and we don't understand the difference" if it weren't for the fact that one group was considered better than the other and both groups aggressively police transgressions
Show threadSteph (crisis version)
@afewbugs the very thought of trying to explain working-class crab-bucket mentality to an alien absolutely exhausts me
Feb 3 at 8:20pmWeb
Show threadAgyei GyasiFeb 3
@astronomerritt @afewbugs this thread is the most mind-bending journey into powerlessness I have ever taken 😩. I have just added "social alienation" to my list of things to crush 🥊💥!
Show threadSteph (crisis version)Feb 3
@amblergee @afewbugs Just when you think you’ve got a good handle on all the oppressive systems in the world, here comes another one! And somehow it’s ALSO the fault of the British. That just keeps happening, somehow…
Show threadClaudine C Feb 3
@astronomerritt I grew up being indoctrinated into anachronistic Queen's English in two countries, can confirm it's always the fault of the British (especially the English). It's taken decades to stop sounding prim and stuck-up and I still stop myself from swearing out loud, but at least I'm not silently judging others now (for language reasons I mean).