SaymazTwitter user Eyup Lovely got sent a phishing link by a zionist org. He clicked on the link. Next day police came to his house, stripped him naked, beat him and arrested him on false accusations.
Anyone still using Twitter is Nazi collaborator; they should expect things like this to happen.
Outdoor_Catgirl [she/her, they/them]The government doing policr state shit is what should be discussed here, not petty social media site drama. You contribute way more to nazi fascism by paying taxes in the west than by tweeting.
Don’t victim blame.
Anyone still using Twitter cannot claim victimhood. They know it is owned by a Nazi and its algorithms are created by Nazis. You might as well join Truth Social and drive a cybertruck.
AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]Why did you reply to this one?
This type of logic taken to its conclusion is utterly absurd. You could as well say: “Anyone living in the US cannot claim victimhood. They know it is owned by Nazis and its governance is created by Nazis.” Which hopefully illustrates how stupid it sounds, but I can explain further if need be. Shoveling victim blaming into the garbage is worth the energy.
It’s also just distracting and completely the wrong focus here. How can you read this story and go “the takeaway here is that people deserve what they get for using Twitter” and not “jesus fucking christ, they came and beat the shit out of someone at their home over what they post.”
queermunist she/herLeaving the US is a little bit harder than leaving Xitter imo
Technically correct, but misses the point. It’s the stuff of: “If you haven’t thrown out your cellphone because of its links to capitalist abuse, you deserve to suffer” or something. The Nib was making fun of this years ago, with its comic about “we should improve society somewhat”, “yet you participate in society, curious”. Expecting individuals to voluntarily find their way to the right decisions or else they deserve to suffer has more in common with liberalism than marxism-leninism. Treating individuals as moral failures (and therefore deserving of suffering) because they haven’t rejected every aspect of the society they live in, in order to fight against it, is asinine.
This isn’t to take it to another extreme and be in support of having no standards at all for how people behave or who we choose to organize with (a context where this matters a lot more). It’s normal to have lines drawn in the sand. But over being on Twitter? For god’s sake, they’re an internet poster, not a war criminal, and you aren’t the same as a Nazi simply by posting on a platform that got taken over by one. That’s why I made the comparison to living in the US. It’s one of the most grotesque empires in human history, but that doesn’t mean everyone who lives there is guilty by proxy with full awareness, complicity, and consent to its crimes. Guilt by proxy is the kind of stuff people use to (flimsily) justify genocide, not the kind of reasoning we need to be getting anywhere near. A person who lives with an abusive spouse is not the same as the abusive spouse. We need to be focused more on solutions than on ivory tower moralizing that conveniently leaves out the ways our own behaviors and associations are linked to the global system of exploitation.
Getting rid of your cellphone is also harder than leaving Xitter. Xitter isn’t a vital part of society or really that important, it’s literally just a place to waste time. It’s actually a really easy and simple thing to do and should be encouraged.
I don’t know if scolding individuals for their behavior is effective as a general strategy, I just mean to point out that it’s categorically different to criticize someone for using Xitter than to criticize them for owning a cell phone or living in the US.
To be clear, people who use Xitter don’t deserve to get beaten by cops. I don’t know what the fuck that other user is on about, it’s just a nasty habit. But it is a lot easier to give it up than to move out of the US or to stop using a cell phone, and we should talk about that. It’s not useful, it’s actively harmful to its users, and people who use it should be encouraged to stop.
rainpizzaAttack ideas but not people. Please check rule 3 so that it could help you understand what is a productive response-> lemmygrad.ml/post/10105758
--- Clarification and moderation policy on rule 3 (read this) --- - Lemmygrad
This post was approved by the administration and is posted collectively under our name Lemmygrad becomes what you make of it. We strive to be a disciplined Marxist-Leninist space, not a second Reddit. For some time, we have noticed a lack of discipline taking hold on Lemmygrad. This isn’t a space to get a quick quip in before dipping out, or to admonish someone for not sharing your opinions. This is a space to grow. To discuss things you can’t discuss elsewhere, ask thoughtful questions, and submit your ideas for comradely consideration, with the understanding that others will engage with them in the same spirit. ### Clarifying what “be respectful” means in practice Our sitewide rule 3 states: “Be respectful. This is a safe space where all comrades should feel welcome; this includes a warning against uncritical sectarianism.” We need to clarify what “respect” means here, in the context of a disciplined political space. It’s not just politeness; rule 3 extends to disciplinary failures in engagement, including: - Making undisciplined, low-effort comments, especially in tense or theory conversations. - Entrenching oneself to prove a point rather than to discuss an idea. - Insulting or disparaging comrades. - Trolling or acting in bad faith. - Refusing to budge on one’s held beliefs and lashing out as a consequence. From now on, we will enforce this rule more heavily. This is also a moment of self-criticism: in wanting to be hands-off and promote self-moderation, we have let things slide that we shouldn’t have. To address this, we are recruiting more community mods and discussing adding new admins alongside making this post. ### The core principle: struggle against ideas, not individuals This is the foundation of comradely struggle. If you can’t make a comment without resorting to pettiness, strawmanning, or attacking the individual instead of pointing out the flaws in their ideas, we urge you to step back. Not everything needs an immediate reaction. Conversely, you are expected to start discussions in good faith so that you receive the same treatment. Why draw this distinction? Debates struggle against individuals, using underhanded tactics to “win” in front of an audience. Our method is to struggle against incorrect ideas, with the goal of helping each other grow and develop our place in the struggle. #### A concrete historical example During the Long March, Bo Gu was removed from command of the Red Army at the Zunyi Conference. Mao and others argued that Bo had rigidly applied USSR Red Army tactics, leading to excessive, avoidable losses against the KMT. The decision wasn’t about the committee liking Mao more. It was a recognition that the tactics were incompatible with reality and needed to change. Crucially, was Bo Gu solely to blame? No. He had been put in command by the Politburo, which shared responsibility for believing those tactics would work. This wasn’t primarily an individual moral failing, but a collective responsibility for a flawed line that needed correction. Notably, Bo Gu continued to work alongside Mao and Zhou afterwards. This is our model. We critique the line, the strategy and the idea – not the comrade’s worth. Leave the ego at the door. We work for the community, we don’t commandeer it. ### New policy in moderation Guided by this principle, our moderation will change. We will now more readily delete comments that break rule 3, and we will use short, temporary bans (1-2 days) more often as a “cooling-off” period. These bans may be local to a specific community or instance-wide at our discretion. We know nobody likes bans, but experience shows these short breaks effectively defuse tense situations. We also count on mods to use this tool within their communities. If a dispute spills outside of the original comment chain, we will consider it harassment and issue longer bans. We also want to add a word in regards to serial downvoting. Downvotes can be used as harassment, and we urge you to consider before issuing a downvote on a post or comment. Ask yourself: is it helpful to downvote? Is it productive? What does it communicate? These standards also apply to users from other instances. We expect you to apply them when you post on Lemmygrad. ### Your responsibility and how to report effectively We appreciate your cooperation if a temp ban is issued to your account. If it happens, the best thing you can do is reflect on it privately (or with comrades if you feel so inclined) and then move on from it. Making a post to complain about a ban after it’s passed has shown through experience that it’s rarely productive - this is not us telling you not to appeal to be clear, just that the best thing you can do is to simply carry on after a ban. So thank you for cooperating with the admin team and the community on this. Moderation is a partnership. When you report something, we see only the specific content, your username, and your reason in the report. Understanding the full context requires significant labor. Therefore, your role is critical: - Your first tool should be disengagement. Step away from unproductive conversations. You do not need to have the last word. - When reporting, provide context. Explain why in the reason box. What happened, and why exactly are you making a report? Reports used as a “super-downvote” or for revenge don’t help. - Understand that we see this from an outside perspective. We can’t know how you feel in the moment of a heated conversation, and through experience we find that usually both parties have some blame by the time we get the report. This is why we ask you to step away and report instead of participating in a conversation that is spiraling out of control. tl;dr: commenting and posting on Lemmygrad ought to be thoughtful, principled, good faith and Marxist in nature. Diamat means that both parties should abide by these principles with the other to make a new dialectic emerge. Please feel free to ask questions in the comments.
Maybe you should tell this to the brat, Bronstein_Tardigrade. Personally, I will attack whoever I want whenever I deem it necessary.
I understand you and tbh I also disagree with Bronstein_Tardigrade. However, it is better to keep this thread productive and help us by articulating your disagreement with arguments instead of defaulting to insults. Insults only derail this conversation into an unproductive and unhelpful conversation.
With your help, we can keep this thread productive for everyone. Take care.
Twitter, whether we like it or not, is one of the most broadly used social media platforms there is, with some of the furthest reach. Calling it “just a place to waste time” is an ignorant take on it that misses how these platforms become part of communication, career, alerts, friendships, agitprop. For some people, it is “just a place to waste time.” For some, it is much more.
It is technically correct that there are degrees of how “easy” these examples of things are to “quit”, but as I said before, litigating over which is generally easier to “quit” is missing the point. It’s also something that can be greatly influenced by background/circumstances. The US is easy to leave if you’re wealthy, but the experience is going to be very different if you’re poor. In fact, most things are easy to selectively “quit” if you’re wealthy. It’s the poor people who have to look worse for not uprooting parts of their life on a whim, while well-off people are more easily able to make choices that look conscientious on paper due to the padding they have.
We could make a chart that tries to go over easiest to hardest things to quit/leave, but it would be misleading if it didn’t take into account the reasons any given person hasn’t done it and the weight the given thing carries in their life. It would also be rather pointless in this context if we weren’t also going over value of quitting. Performative morality isn’t going to help the cause and we can’t assume that leaving a thing to the fascists is automatically good because fascists are currently in charge of it. That reasoning taken to its conclusion leads to giving up. There are contexts boycotts may make a difference, if they’re organized, but I don’t see how people randomly choosing to not do a thing when they get around to it is going to apply consistent pressure with vocal demands.
Yeah, call me ignorant, I don’t get it at all. I don’t see how it’s even slightly useful. It’s certainly not working class people that “need” Xitter for their career, at most it’s petite bourgeois content creators and influencers who need it to reach an audience. I can’t imagine what a poor person could possibly need Xitter for, it makes no sense to me.
For context I’m in my 30s and never had an account. It just seemed like a place to make me mad, and that hasn’t changed since it was bought by Musk and taken over by fascists.
For at least a few years Twitter was the place to get breaking news as it was unfolding, like during the Arab Spring. Over the past year though it has become utter shit for even that as X’s algorithms push clearly right-wing slants of mostly made up culture war stories.
All that to say though that under a post about the UK government working with Zionists to beat up and jail a shitposter just because they don’t like Israel, we’re instead in a lengthy discussion about whether or not using the 6th most popular website on the entire internet is a mark against someone. Yes practically anyone on X can switch to another site and be better for it, yes it is incredibly easy to drop for practically everyone using that website… but this started with a comment that said he deserved state violence and a kangaroo court trial over this lol. Feels like we’ve moved onto a totally different, equally needless discussion while pulling focus away from what really matters
Yeah it was the only public forum/town square of the internet. It just really isn’t that anymore, and I think it really matters that people stop using Xitter. It’s bad for users and bad for society. That said, you’re right, it certainly isn’t the highest contradiction and people don’t deserve to be brutalized by pigs because they’re a shitposter.
But its wack to compare leaving Xitter to leaving the US or giving up cellphones. That was my original point.
Agreed, comparisons to paying taxes or giving up phones or whatnot is pretty silly haha
Okay, tell me why it is silly (while taking into account what I already said in this thread to explain the irrelevance here of rating ease of quitting things).
I can give you a pretty direct example. I remember one of the mutuals I had when I used to use twitter, they sometimes used it to ask for help with stuff, similar to how some people ask for help in mutualaid here. Twitter pre-Musk was a big part of what helped move me left politically and got me exposed to political education. When it was bent toward “mask on fascism” pre-Musk, nobody cared in the kind of way presented in this thread, like there was something wrong with you for using it. Now that the mask is off, suddenly people are terrible for being on there. It’s weird.
I can’t vouch for it having much to offer at this point. I haven’t used it in a while and last I knew, a lot had deteriorated in being overrun by zionist bots, or just like, porn bots. But I know that even post-Musk, there were times people furthered connections and like I mentioned first, got help in one way or another.
Edit: Also, if you’ve never used it and evidently know very little about it in practice, maybe you shouldn’t be crusading about who should or shouldn’t use it?
You’re talking about how it was useful before, but does it still apply? Seems like that was stomped out.
As for why it’s different now, nobody cared because it was a space shared by fascists and antifascists. I never really used it, but was still peripherally aware enough to know that there was a left-Twitter. Similar to Reddit, the site was shared by some of the worst and best people on the internet. That’s no longer the case. It’s not the internet town square where users share equal space and compete for attention, it’s now just a platform for Nazis and pedos by Nazis and pedos. I don’t see good reasons to use it. It’s a nasty habit.
Grok is stripping clothes off of children’s photos and making revenge porn. It’s indefensible. People need to log off.
You’re talking about how it was useful before, but does it still apply? Seems like that was stomped out.
Based on what? Vibes? You already admitted you have no experience with it.
You’re talking about how it was useful before, but does it still apply? Seems like that was stomped out.
Even though anti imperialist, anti zionist and communist accounts get banned with a higher frequency, it still applies. You may have not noticed but plenty of information that I and other comrades have shared in Lemmygrad comes from Xitter. Example:
-
Venezuelan news channel post awesome video of a rock band smashing a Trump Piñata -> lemmygrad.ml/post/10493257
-
Pro DPRK account posts films from NK(they also post regular news like new homes being built and way more) -> lemmygrad.ml/post/10492303
-
Who is Ursula Von Der Leyen post comes from Xitter too -> lemmygrad.ml/post/10451842
There is just too many examples but maybe you weren’t aware because people already extract the good content from there and share it to comrades here.
Linus Torvalds muses about maintainer gray hairs and the next 'King of Linux' - Lemmygrad
In a candid keynote chat at the Linux Foundation [https://www.linuxfoundation.org/]’s Open Source Summit Europe [https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe/], Linux creator Linus Torvalds shared his thoughts on kernel development, the integration of Rust [https://www.rust-lang.org/], and the future of open source.
Personally, I read it, and thought it was a LLM story. I searched and could not find verification.
So first it’s victim blaming, now it didn’t happen? I think you got the narcissist’s prayer confused, you’re doing it in reverse order.
I’m willing to accept links to said verification. I stated my cursory search yielded nada.
Well right now OP is in the best position to do that and I don’t know if they are reading the replies. I have tried to ask them stuff directly before and not gotten a response. You could try pinging their username and ask for source.
Generally, I’m supportive of requesting sources and all. It’s just a really bad look to start out victim blaming and then go to denial when that fails.
Just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
So somehow I didn’t see this before in spite of it saying it was posted 2 days ago (which alludes to the timing being they posted it with the thread itself), but OP does have a link posted to it: lemmygrad.ml/post/10483129/7646910
What say you?
Twitter user Eyup Lovely got sent a phishing link by a zionist org. He clicked on the link. Next day police came to his house, stripped him naked, beat him and arrested him on false accusations. - Lemmygrad
[https://lemmygrad.ml/pictrs/image/a3a2bace-79b1-4948-a427-dc4bd090184e.png] [https://lemmygrad.ml/pictrs/image/2f0e1c38-c81e-42dd-9f10-19c433dd2659.png] [https://lemmygrad.ml/pictrs/image/1038b114-b186-400d-bf80-8e571810dc9e.png]
I’m asking for independent verification of the story outside the original Twitter post. An extraordinary claim such as this arouses the skeptic in me. Even in the original Twit, there are commenters doubting the veracity of the story. I’ll admit to not doing a deep dive, wasn’t worth the effort, but I did actually search for other news sources of the story and found none. I’m not questioning whether it could happen, but I am questioning if it did in this case. In the age of bots, a bit of skepticism should be a good thing.
I still stand by my original statement that use of Twitter is Nazi collaboration; every Twit, every comment, is putting money in Elon’s pocket. For some reason, boycotting Tesla was a moral imperative, but boycotting Twitter seems to be controversial. Same Nazi salute throwing owner. At least Tesla owners have the excuse of being stuck still paying off their bank loans.
Independent verification how though? A reporter coming to their home and looking at the bruises? And then you can say, “But they could have gotten the bruises some other way.” I understand being skeptical, it’s a bizarre story no doubt, but that’s part of what makes it concerning: how easy it is to dismiss it as made up. The person put it well themself: “Try explain this to a normal person and enjoy your schizophrenia diagnosis.”
Just seems like a story of a person’s house being raided and a physical assault taking place would appear outside of a first person account. I’m not saying the story isn’t true, just that I can find no verification of it being so. Isn’t this how conspiracy theories start?
I mean, some of the shit that has since been verified about what the CIA has gotten up to would sound like unhinged conspiracy theory at a glance. Like MKUltra. That doesn’t mean we should automatically believe every claim, but a story sounding odd in the same world with those kind of organizations is not reason alone to dismiss it.
Either way, it’s a good opportunity to remind people to take care in opsec and don’t assume the state will side with you on flimsy notions of liberal “democracy” rights if you’re opposing the dominant narrative.
AmnesigenicOpting out of using twitter is a whole lot easier to do than moving to a different country, try again
It’s really hard to see this as different from concern trolling at this point.
Get your eyes checked
On the contrary, amemorablename has his eyes well placed.
If you have questions regarding why telling people to leave twitter, even though there is no comparable alternative, is a moralist argument; you can always make them and free yourself from doubt.
There don’t need to be “comparable alternatives”, people organized and communicated before Twitter and will do so after, alternatives become comparable exactly by people using them instead of Twitter, quit making excuses for lazy bullshit
You do need “comparable alternatives” and there was nothing similar to Twitter before. That’s why even gov’t, scientists and comrades use it to broadcast information and refuse to leave.
I think the person spewing real lazy(and moralist if I may add) bullshit is you. Follow your own advice and quit it.
Good one
You could have actually engaged with what I have written(which is basically what Conselheiro and Amemorablename have eloquently expressed in this thread) and turned this into a productive conversation. However, to my surprise, you have proven incapable of escaping from moralist arguments or boring one liner sentences and decided to troll like a 12 year old.
Truly disappointing. Hope that you could soon grow up. Peace out…
Engage with what? You’re full of shit
Well, for starters, with arguments. That’s what you could try engaging with instead of this petty insults of a 12 year old child.
Want me to rehash my arguments for you so you could finally engage with them in good faith? or shall we end this conversation? What’s your choice?
Your argument is 100% bullshit, rehashing it won’t change that
Ok, then prove that it is “100% bullshit” with evidence and arguments. I will make it easier for you to remember what I wrote to you before by listing it:
- You do need “comparable alternatives”(This is speaking from the point of view of journalists, gov’ts, scientists, and even comrades)
- That’s why even gov’t, scientists and comrades use it to broadcast information.
- There was nothing similar to Twitter before
- I will add the other comrades arguments as well: lemmygrad.ml/post/10483129/7648693 and lemmygrad.ml/post/10483129/7648293
Hope that you can actually produce a productive conversation instead of those lazy insults that bore me. 🥱
Twitter user Eyup Lovely got sent a phishing link by a zionist org. He clicked on the link. Next day police came to his house, stripped him naked, beat him and arrested him on false accusations. - Lemmygrad
[https://lemmygrad.ml/pictrs/image/a3a2bace-79b1-4948-a427-dc4bd090184e.png] [https://lemmygrad.ml/pictrs/image/2f0e1c38-c81e-42dd-9f10-19c433dd2659.png] [https://lemmygrad.ml/pictrs/image/1038b114-b186-400d-bf80-8e571810dc9e.png]
Chickenshit mod
Frogmanfromlake [none/use name]I wouldn’t go that far but it is interesting to see the lengths people go to in order to justify staying there while knowing exactly what it is. You have to pay taxes but you don’t have to be on Twitter.
I tend to think those who got the knickers in a twist are those who are still using Twitter and are trying to justify it in their own minds. What’s worse, they are on Lemmy, so know there are federated alternatives.
ConselheiroConsumer activism and absenteeism will get you nowhere. Same argument applies to Meta platforms, YouTube, Reddit and whatnot. Merely existing socially in capitalist platforms does not equate to supporting the ideology of those platforms. There are a myriad reasons why one would remain on twitter despite the current state of the platform (academia, for exampl, still relies a lot on it), and this high minded moralism won’t change that.
So, to argue against using a platform supported by Nazis is “high minded moralism”? Convenience and mass usage is an excuse for that support? You are correct in the use of Meta, Alphabet, Reddit, and Microsoft products are the same.
So, to argue against using a platform supported by Nazis is “high minded moralism”?
Yes. Not much to add here, it’s a moral argument not a practical one. And trying to make it a practical argument will yield very poor results.
Convenience and mass usage is an excuse for that support?
Usage does not equate to support, most people aren’t even paid users. Besides that, it’s not just a matter of convenience, it’s often a necessity. Try being a Latam journalist without an Instagram, a tech workers wiwithout linkedin, a communicator without YouTube. Absenteeism’s only effect is giving you a warm fuzzy feeling of moral superiority. For serious militants, if you want to have an effect on society you will unfortunately have to engage with it.
Besides, this discussion started from arguing that a guy being beaten up by the police due to being doxxed by either Zionists or Banderites is somehow justified because he… Uses twitter? If you can’t see the frankly absurd implications of that, imagine if the same happened to Richard Wolff, Vijay Prashad or any other communist who has an account there. Or any other random person with an audience, in fact. Imagine if Jenny Nicholson, NileRed or any other non-left non-politics influencer randomly decided to oppose Zionism and Banderites online and got physically attacked, since you agree YouTube is just as bad. Not even getting into MS Windows users.
I truly hope you simply haven’t thought this through. Sorry to tell you, but hiding away in a commie forum with 200 users and belittling anybody out of it is not praxis.
If you have the time could you expand on the ways academia depends on Twitter? I’m asking genuinely because the ‘artist engagement’ angle never seemed very convincing to me, but I had never heard of how academia is linked into it.
Twitter was adopted pretty quickly by academics all over the world as a good platform to effortlessly share articles, pre-prints and small results and discussions, as it was much better than Facebook or old Reddit for that. After years being a hub they’re now a captive audience.
It’s become a good habit for many scientists to include a “check twitter” task on their routine to stay up to date on the goings on of the scientific community. And back when I used it there were lots of cool trends for science communication whose history would be lost on migration, like the #ArachnoThreads listing cool facts about specific spider genera.
Had no idea. Now that you’ve described it makes a lot of sense, especially because science and academia are always the more active branches of federated social media. Federated social media is almost always trying to imitate the preexisting communities that dominate Twitter, etc. Thanks for the time.
I follow scientific account in X such as China Science for example -> xcancel.com/ChinaScience As Conselheiro explained very well, X/Twitter is still useful to broadcast this type of information.
For example, they recently posted this surgery: