TutaIf only we hadn't been right about #ageverification spreading in 2026. 😤
Let's keep fighting for #privacy and #anonymity 💪
Deni Mintsaev (mintydev)@Tutanota I must be one of the only privacy advocates who actually thinks children shouldn't be allowed to use social media 😬 My main concern is the age verification implementation, but I know there are ways to make it 100% private, only revealing if you're over a certain age as a true or false value.
gommehammer@mintydev
A digital ID card called "swiyu" is in the works in Switzerland and should enable privacy preserving age verification mechanisms. The claim is that services will only receive the necessary information and nothing else. If the implementation is as told, I'm looking forward to it! It might be a role model for other implementations.
The system is also being developed in the open on GitHub, which I see very positively.
A digital ID card called "swiyu" is in the works in Switzerland and should enable privacy preserving age verification mechanisms. The claim is that services will only receive the necessary information and nothing else. If the implementation is as told, I'm looking forward to it! It might be a role model for other implementations.
The system is also being developed in the open on GitHub, which I see very positively.
@gommehammer that's great! Yeah, I think a system like that ought to be open source. I heard that they have some trust-less solution for online verifications in Switzerland last time I was there.
@mintydev I'm not sure I've come across this solution you mention. To open bank accounts or phone contracts online, I've always had to upload my ID or passport and get it scanned by some 3rd party service :(
Thats part of the reason I'm really looking forward to this E-ID.
Thats part of the reason I'm really looking forward to this E-ID.
@gommehammer I was referring to age verification for social media, where you only need to prove you're over 16.
IbiAndroid and iphone, as well as other custom ROMs all allow parents to control their children's online activity, the websites they browsed, and even the screen time.
We already have ways to protect our children, so we don't need a law to get all folks age in order to ban some.
We already have ways to protect our children, so we don't need a law to get all folks age in order to ban some.
@Ibi should we also not have laws requiring children to get educated, since parents can just do the right thing and send their children to school anyways?
Education and prohibition are different. The latter one will restrict their liberty to certain level, in a clear-cut standard.
Children can use social media healthily with parental management.
Age-based banning, however, has a huge sacrifice on anonymity, cybersecurity, and freedom.
Considering proportionality, such kind of law is problematic.
Children can use social media healthily with parental management.
Age-based banning, however, has a huge sacrifice on anonymity, cybersecurity, and freedom.
Considering proportionality, such kind of law is problematic.
@Ibi Did you miss the part where I said it should only reveal whether or not you're over the age as a true or false value? How does that compromise your anonymity any more than your IP address, which websites can see most of the time? And children already don't get the same liberties adults get, because they're not developed enough to be able to handle certain responsibilities. Open access to the internet has proven to be damaging even to adults, so we definitely shouldn't give that to children.
Technically speaking, how can an organisation get folks' age without breaking anonymity? Where the true/false value comes from?
If getting the value from ID, then the anonymity is compromised, and even endangered.
Perhaps we don't need to hand our data to every stakeholder, while letting it be automatically solved by a 3rd party.
Then this '3rd party' will be the jeopardised one. In case it got hacked, or gov asks it to give out some sensitive data, we have nowhere to hide, no matter whether it's a benign request (don't forget government have bad records).
If the value is self-submitted, then children can just fill 18+ and get the result they want. There will be no change.
If getting the value from ID, then the anonymity is compromised, and even endangered.
Perhaps we don't need to hand our data to every stakeholder, while letting it be automatically solved by a 3rd party.
Then this '3rd party' will be the jeopardised one. In case it got hacked, or gov asks it to give out some sensitive data, we have nowhere to hide, no matter whether it's a benign request (don't forget government have bad records).
If the value is self-submitted, then children can just fill 18+ and get the result they want. There will be no change.
@Ibi there could be methods of verifying your age through some cryptographic method. E.g: people that reach a certain age are given a cryptographic key by the government that only serves the purpose of verifying you are over the age threshold and doesn't provide any information beyond that. This verification could be done by a gov. website or a 3rd party website that is open source and doesn't store any data about the users. The first cryptocurrency also didnt end up being the truly private one.
@Ibi BUT! I am critical of the fact that these laws are being passed haphazardly, before a truly private method is established.
@Tutanota This is not to protect the children.
Instead, It is to force adults to give up their IDs (and normalize the act) so they are easy to be identified whenever they try to spread the truth or post/comment something against the will of the elites.
There are numerous ways to protect the children. This is definitely not one of them.