Douglas Adams once said something, answering a question from a fan about whether Arthur Dent was a “hero”, and whether the Hitchhiker stories were “gaily whimsical” or cynical. The whole thing won't fit here (see: https://shreevatsa.net/post/douglas-adams-cultural-divide/) but quoting the main part:

> I suspect there is a cultural divide at work here. In England our heroes tend to be characters who either have, or come to realise that they have, no control over their lives whatsoever – Pilgrim, Gulliver, Hamlet, Paul Pennyfeather (from Decline and Fall), Tony Last (from A Handful of Dust). We celebrate our defeats and our withdrawals – the Battle of Hastings, Dunkirk, almost any given test match. There was a wonderful book published, oh, about twenty years ago I think, by Stephen Pile called the Book of Heroic Failures. It was staggeringly huge bestseller in England and sank with heroic lack of trace in the U.S. Stephen explained this to me by saying that you cannot make jokes about failure in the States. It’s like cancer, it just isn’t funny at any level. In England, though, for some reason it’s the thing we love most. So Arthur may not seem like much of a hero to Americans – he doesn’t have any stock options, he doesn’t have anything to exchange high fives about round the water-cooler. But to the English, he is a hero. Terrible things happen to him, he complains about it a bit quite articulately, so we can really feel it along with him - then calms down and has a cup of tea. My kind of guy!
>
> I’ve hit a certain amount of difficulty over the years in explaining this in Hollywood. I’m often asked ‘Yes, but what are his goals?’ to which I can only respond, well, I think he’d just like all this to stop, really. It’s been a hard sell.

@svat This reminds me of how Peter Jackson almost ruined the ending of Lord of the Rings.

They had planned and even shot some of a giant hero battle between Aragorn and Sauron that was supposed to be happening while Frodo successfully destroyed the Ring. Fortunately they came to their senses and stuck with the book version where the battle at the gate could only be a losing one and Frodo claims the Ring for himself. Even the destruction of the Ring comes from Gollum's failure when he steals back and falls into lava.

@Chigaze
They filmed that!? Unbelievable.

@svat

Aragorn vs Sauron unreleased scene (better quality) - edited

YouTube

@Chigaze
I was hoping you'd share something like that. 😉

It was less bad than I'd feared, but not nearly so good as what the movie shows: the Eye struggling and the tower of Barad-dûr crashing down.

https://youtu.be/FyzE9thQIPo?si=V_SWEmm2f5PaVqXD&t=1m11s

#LoTR

@svat

LOTR The Return of the King - Sauron Defeated

YouTube
@mpjgregoire Oh I think it would have looked very good but was very much at odds with the book. It's kind of like I have big issues with the portrayal of Faramir and his rangers in the movies. I think on their own they are good story but it is a story very different in tone and portrayal to what Tolkien intended.

@Chigaze My favourite scene in the movies is the lighting of the beacons. It's in the books, sort of, but it's a minor element in the plot.

Movies are different from books, and some things that work well in one medium don't work in the other. We should generally judge the creations on their own merits.

@mpjgregoire That was a change from the books that worked for me. Having Pippin light them was good movie making and didn't change anything significant in the story.

My issue with the changes to Faramir are that they made him cruel which he absolutely was not in the books and I don't think necessary for the movie. Further he is the character Tolkien said was most like himself so that change bites rather hard.

@mpjgregoire @Chigaze This is how I've always viewed the films. The whole question of adaptation has always fascinated me, and I think (with a few quibbles) Jackson did a magnificent job, considering he's a movie maker while JRRT was an author.