squirrel

What's up with Gemini development?

I’ve been testing Gemini in Lagrange browser for a couple of days now. I like the concept and philosophy behind it. Simple, small sites, mostly text based.

But, I’m wondering why most of the browsers for Android are unmaintained and outdated. This protocol is perfect for mobile. No overloaded pages, small file sizes etc.

It seems that development of a lot of Gemini software discontinued a couple of years ago. What happened?

https://piefed.kobel.fyi/c/smolweb/p/44531/what-s-up-with-gemini-development

What's up with Gemini development?

I've been testing Gemini in Lagrange browser for a couple of days now. I like the concept and philosophy behind it. Simple, small sites, mostly tex…

Dec 30 at 8:40pmWeb
Show threadMarekDec 30
@squirrel Lagrange is available for Android (and has its own F-Droid repo).
Show threadsquirrelDec 30
Interesting. I found the apk on https://gmi.skyjake.fi/lagrange/ now. I tried the F-Droid repo, but it’s not the latest version. I’ll try the apk. Thank you!
Lagrange

Show threadpoldyDec 30

Not sure, but I think almost everyone just switched to Lagrange for a graphical browser. And within the scope of a “read-only document distribution protocol”, it’s more-or-less finished.

I regularly post to my technical blog, and read the Antenna aggregator (although personally I prefer elpher for a client).

Show threadsquirrelDec 30
I like Lagrange so far. Didn’t know there was an Android version, but it’s running pretty good. What’s your blogs gemini URL?
Show threadpoldyJan 2
A bit late, but it’s gemini://republic.circumlunar.space/…/gemlog/ I’d recommend starting with Antenna instead though.
Show threadsquirrelJan 2
Thanks. Antenna is already in my bookmarks.
Show threadKiwiTBDec 30

Long story short. Gemini was designed to be a static technology… It got released, and that’s the end. No more progress, no more features. Immediately people were frustrated with a lack of options, so people started adding on custom ways of doing things which were missing… Suddenly lots of completing features in custom solutions arrived and with that the concept died.

The projects static goal was interesting but doomed from the beginning.

Show threadEugeneDec 31

@squirrel The peak of interest in Gemini passed around that 2 years ago mark. The idea of "scrap this edifice and let's see if we can do without" is not currently in zeitgeist, and the AI debacle became the trendy thing. (and stole the "Gemini" name too)

When the AI bubble explodes, I expect we'll see another wave of interest.

Show threadbudget_biochemistDec 31

The idea of “scrap this edifice and let’s see if we can do without”

That’s what I found confusing about Gemini - its goals aren’t incompatible with HTTP but it’s deliberately trying to be incompatible with HTTP, apparently just for the sake of being different and not any technical reasons.

To answer the original question of “What’s up with Gemini development” it seems that interest has waned because building something that’s deliberately incompatible with existing systems isn’t going to maintain broad appeal and get people creating and using content and software on the system.

99% of the goal could be done in a web-compatible way by just having a way to declare that any site is “gemini-like” or “gopherish” by enforcing a Gopher-style hierarchy on the site, using a restricted subset of HTML (and semantic use of markup), minimal or no CSS (e.g. Smolweb’s CSS Grading), no font embeds, no images, no JS, no videos. The remaining 1% could be done with a browser extensions that activate on any such page and provide gopher-style map/menu navigation with the keyboard.

SmolWeb CSS Grading Specification

smolweb.org promotes simple unbloated web. It provides resources to actors who want to participate.

Show threadEugeneDec 31

@budget_biochemist There was a technical reason, though. It was specifically that HTTP/HTML have become too extensive to actually implement afresh and consumed everything. Making something impossible to extend beyond a certain point was the explicitly stated goal, and that goal is impossible to reach with a defined subset of HTTP/HTML, precisely because it would be a subset, and thus the extant superset would be its extension.

It's a very (and needlessly) radical logic, but it is consistent.

Show threadPhilip WittamoreJan 7
@squirrel I think it's because what is the point of using gemini with a dedicated browser when I can just use the #smolweb with standard http browsers
Show threadJohannes BrakensiekJan 7
@venelles @squirrel Don‘t think so. Standard browser need to be developed and maintained as well. We got some multi-million-dollar companies doing that and nobody else is able to. Don‘t know why people feel fine with that.
Show threadPhilip WittamoreJan 7
@lazarus @squirrel you can visit my web site with lynx, dillo, firefox or chrome. It's not the browser, it's the site, and it's availability.
Show threadJohannes BrakensiekJan 7
@venelles @squirrel Yes, you‘re right. Dillo probably still is harder to implement than a Gemini browser, but you won‘t need Firefox for this.