Aral BalkanI don’t know if this is a sick burn (by a FOSDEM organiser spilling the truth about FOSDEM) or an own goal.
🤷♂️ https://pleroma.debian.social/objects/f49df30a-d65e-4195-833d-29b7481b3aba
Charles U. Farley@aral It baffles me that people think there's any point to FOSS besides improving freedom/privacy/human rights/democracy.
They should fire that guy.
Wouter Verhelst@freakazoid
FOSDEM is not my employer, so they can't fire me.
FOSDEM is a non-profit, all its organizers are volunteers who do this (largely thankless) work because they care about free software and/or open source.
I've also been active in the free software community as a Debian Developer and elsewhere for almost 25 years now, so trust me when I say I know what 'free software' is about.
@aral
FOSDEM is not my employer, so they can't fire me.
FOSDEM is a non-profit, all its organizers are volunteers who do this (largely thankless) work because they care about free software and/or open source.
I've also been active in the free software community as a Debian Developer and elsewhere for almost 25 years now, so trust me when I say I know what 'free software' is about.
@aral
@freakazoid You have an opinion, and that's valid. My opinion is different.
Free software is not about the open internet. Free software is not about general purpose computing. Free software is not about democracy. Free software is not about privacy.
Those are all important things, and I support many of them! And free software will help you in those endeavours in a very big way.
But they're not free software, by themself. Free software is, well, free software. Nothing more.
@wouter You don't even understand what the word "free" means in "free software".
@freakazoid Please stop confusing "I disagree with you" with "I don't know what I'm talking about". You do not hold the absolute truth (and neither do I).
@wouter If you knew what you were talking about you'd respond to what I said instead of assuming that I don't know what I'm talking about.
Free software isn't just about freedom to use the software you happen to make. It's about the freedom to use *my* computer. *My* printer. *My* phone. Not to have these devices be controlled by their manufacturer to the point that we're really just paying rent up front.
But because ESR came along and convinced so many of you that it's really just about the development process and access to the source code, and businesses were our friends, we now live in a world where Google takes that "free" kernel and used it to built a portable telescreen we all have to carry around.
But if your point is really that free software is about nothing at all that anyone who's not a techbro would care about, as Aral said that's quite the self-own.
@wouter But, honestly, if the "free software" weren't full of people such as yourself, we never would have reached this point. And yeah, I guess kinda by definition the movement is about what the mass of its members think it's about, so: nothing that actually matters.
Free software isn't just about freedom to use the software you happen to make. It's about the freedom to use my computer. My printer. My phone. Not to have these devices be controlled by their manufacturer to the point that we're really just paying rent up front.
There's not a hair on my head that does not agree with this, and you thinking otherwise only shows that you completely missed my point.
@freakazoid Free Software is about the 4 freedoms, and the benefits that flow from that into use of that software, which includes things like allowing you make your computer (or printer) do what you want.
There are tangentially related causes, such as privacy, democracy, and freedom of expression, that are relevant and valid, and that I think are very important, but that, while free software can enormously help you achieving, are not directly part of the goals of Free Software.
@freakazoid And I have this (annoying, I know) habit of not conflating everything I care about into everything I do. I care about privacy, but I understand that not everyone in the Free Software community does, and honestly, I think that's fine. To me, it's not required that everything is perfect in every possible way.
When I think about free software, the base of everything is the four freedoms, nothing more.
When I think about privacy, the context is very different.
@wouter Now I feel like we're getting somewhere. In particular we've found the root cause of the free software movement's irrelevance: y'all are fine rubbing shoulders with Nazis. In fact, your "zeroth freedom" is about the freedom to use free software to run death camps. Y'all are fine being IBM to the Nazis as long as you get to use your printer.
@freakazoid you keep putting words in my mouth, and I don't appreciate it. Bye.
@wouter What does it mean to say they're not "directly" part of the movement's goals if the movement's goals are meaningless without them? And what is even the point of the movement's goals if it's not to help achieve the others? What are you saying, that you'd like to be able to use your computer the way you want, but if the fascists take over, oh well?
@freakazoid I'm saying that for an organization, it's not possible or desirable to form an opinion about everything. I don't think FOSDEM has an opinion on privacy, human rights, or democracy, even though most of its members do (some quite vocally so).
I'm saying it's OK for FOSDEM to be like that, as long as the opinion on free software is there and is clear.
I'm personally worried by the current backslide to facism, but it's not something I deal with in the context of FOSDEM.