ByteOnBikesDec 6

We can play that game too

https://discuss.online/post/31713060

Show threadLillyPipDec 6

So many people don’t understand why we live in a society, and apparently have no capacity for empathy.

They’re free to go live in the wilderness, with no roads, no fire department, no water or electricity, no services whatever, and find out how much they’re actually benefiting from our collective.

They won’t, because though they like to complain, they’re pussies who can’t be bothered to think for 5 minutes that the fact they can read and write their snarky bullshit is because they benefitted from free education, else they’d be illiterate.

But gods forbid they pay back the overwhelming amount they benefit from society in a small way. It’s fucking infuriating.

Show threadApathy Tree

They’re free to go live in the wilderness, with no roads, no fire department, no water or electricity, no services whatever, and find out how much they’re actually benefiting from our collective.

Where?

This is what I want to do, but I can’t afford to buy land on which to do it (and not just any land is useful for this either, it needs to be capable of supporting people before you can count it). Land enough to support a small homestead isn’t cheap, and zoning/local laws often restricts what you can do on it. So for example you may buy land, but not be allowed to drill a well, even if you have the means and knowledge to do so. Or if you buy land you can afford, you may not be allowed to build a permanent structure on it at all.

You’ll get kicked out (and possibly fined) of both state and national parks in the US if they find you “permanently camping”, which they are likely to do since there are frequently people out there. The only other option is squatting on private property. If you get caught before whatever time passes for squatters laws to take effect, you lose everything you’ve built up.

I mean don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind paying for things I’ll never use because it makes society as a whole better. All I’m saying is opting out of living in a society is nearly impossible for most people even if they are ok with not having all the stuff society funds like roads and fire control.

Dec 6 at 7:53pmWeb
Show threadLillyPipDec 6
Search off-grid properties. They exist.
Show threadApathy TreeDec 6
Yes I know, I’ve looked at them. That’s how I know they are expensive.
Show threadLillyPipDec 6
But you never have to pay for utilities, rent, taxes for schools or roads or services … obviously it wouldn’t be completely free.
Show threadApathy TreeDec 6
Ok, but if your plan is to live solo forever and not interact with society, you’d basically need to pay for it upfront. That means you need a lot of money all at once, otherwise you’ll still need income, which limits the ability you have to be separate from society.
Show threadLillyPipDec 6

Yes, that would need to be the plan. One upfront payment then never paying for utilities or other things forever. That’s the only way this works.

I think this is madness, but that’s how you do this.

Show threadApathy TreeDec 6

Right, and you get why this is impossible for most people? That was my original point. Most people, even if they want to do this, can’t. It’s unaffordable.

The point is that your suggestion that someone is free to do this is just very much not the case.

Show threadLillyPipDec 6

Of course I do. And again, that’s my point.

People romanticise this, but it’s impossible for many reasons. You can easily try, but we have societies for a reason.

Everyone is free to do this, but good luck in practice. It’s not just hard, and it’s not just stupid, but why the fuck would you want this? It’s insane, and we’re not geared for this.

Life in the wilderness is not a Disney movie. It’s so ruthlessly difficult, that’s why society exists. We are stronger, safer, and happier together.

Show threadayyyDec 6
It’s almost as if we all rely on each other to exist. If only there was a word for that.
Show threadpapalonianDec 6

People aren’t down voting because they don’t think the properties exist, they’re down voting because your argument doesn’t really make sense. People that are saying, “I’d rather just live in the wilderness” are not the ones that can afford to just purchase land. You almost will certainly have to pay taxes on the land as well.

Saying you can not participate in society by participating in society very hard so you can afford to participate a little less and a little further from society isn’t what these people are looking for, they want to hop in a truck with some tools, drive into the woods, never to be seen again. Without a million dollar piece of paper saying they’re allowed to.

Show threadLillyPipDec 6
Well yeah, I get that. But there are plots for really cheap, but they don’t have any kind of access to water, sewage, or whatever. Plots for like 10,000 or less. That sounds like a lot, I suppose, but it isn’t. I think it’s more that people don’t understand how money works,
Show threadGreyEyedGhostDec 8
I like how your dream of self-sufficiency starts with there being g a road you can drive on. Or do you think most woods are reasonable places for driving trucks? You’d be better off buying a donkey or mule. Worst case scenario, you’d have a bit more meat to eat before you starved.
Show threadpapalonianDec 8
I was speaking figuratively, but if you want to be literal, I never said anything about a road, and there’s many kinds of trucks that can drive over many types of terrain.
Show threadGreyEyedGhostDec 8
The kind of truck that can handle any kinds of undeveloped forest are more expensive than the land you say is too expensive for the people who would want to do what you’re saying. So, unrealistic expectations all around.
Show threadpapalonianDec 8

many kinds of trucks that can drive over many types of terrain

truck that can handle any kinds of undeveloped forest

Again, not what I said. A second hand F150 or Tacoma will get you damn near anywhere you want to go that is not heavily forested and is certainly cheaper than a plot of land. You’re trying to pick minute details of my comments and blow them up into the most literal sense of the words yet somehow failing to actually read what I’m saying.

At this point the conversation is a day old and the chance of actually interesting dialogue coming from it is practically zero, so any further misreadings will have to be done on your own.

Show threadlumpenproletariatDec 7

Off grid in Australia is a joke.

You’re still located within a council who have bullshit laws and won’t even allow you live in a tiny home on your land because it’s not up to code that only allows for McMansions.