Mastodawn

Gracious Anthracite Dec 3

@mawr

still using itunes and mostly buying stuff from bandcamp, over here :)

Chris Vreeland Dec 4

@anthracite @mawr Like a boss!

Gracious Anthracite Dec 4

@Devils_Rancher @mawr

Really the main thing keeping me on Apple's music app at this point is not wanting to remake all my smart playlists, and lose all my playcount data. I would say the actual store was part o it but that's kinda broken, there's a glitch where it wants to download two copies of stuff I buy on their store a lot of the time; buying stuff there is usually my first stop if Bandcamp fails me.

Chris Vreeland Dec 4

@anthracite Yeah, Bandcamp first, iTunes Store second, or CD from local retailer when I can manage to get down there. Hell, I was browsing the used bin at Half Price last week and found both The Waterboys & World Party in there. 🙂

Chris Vreeland Dec 4

@anthracite Oh god, when they switched from M4p to M4a files, I ended up with 2 copies of so much stuff, and sometimes the metadata is all jacked up. Wrong cover art, track 1 of 9, track 2 of 14 (from the same album), and vs & in artist names… ugh. But at least it’s not Spotify!

Hazelnoot Dec 3

@mawr is there any competitor in the “pay a flat-rate subscription and listen to basically any song ever published” space? That’s the only thing holding me back from a complete switch tbh

@hazelnoot Apple Music, YouTube Music, Deezer.

Edit: and Qobuz!

Edit: and Tidal!

@mawr @hazelnoot@void.lgbt none of those options seem any more ethical to me and I highly doubt I can catch any of the music from smaller (often independent) artists I follow anywhere other than spotify or youtube

edit: people on here also seem surprisingly fond of bandcamp, given that none of those smaller artists mentioned above have their stuff available there. I have literally never seen any of them link to bandcamp.

@mitsunee @hazelnoot You might try them out, instead of perpetuating the businesses that are driving us deeper into fascism.

@mawr @hazelnoot@void.lgbt the only viable option next to spotify is piracy, because this is a service issue. I literally cannot afford (nor do I want to) give YouTube 17.99€/month, especially when I'm already in a Spotify family for free. There is no other service that has the music I want. Heck, I keep finding older songs that aren't even on Spotify and are only available on niconico or YouTube.

I buy CDs when I can for the music I like the most, but we're so far removed from CDs being viable that I know artists who have been active for a decade (with multiple digitally published albums) who haven't ever had a single physical release. I've lost count of how many years I've waited for anyone to sell their copy of No Title- by REOL for a reasonable price.

Luna Dragofelis ΘΔ🏳️‍⚧️🐱Dec 3

@mitsunee @mawr @hazelnoot It's better for the artist if you pirate their music and buy some official merch occasionally. Spotify pays them so little it might as well be nothing.

If you have an Android phone, consider NewPipe, a third party youtube app with zero ads, zero tracking and unlimited background play.

@LunaDragofelis@void.lgbt smaller artists do not have merch. I don't even know if I could legally buy their music anywhere.

Luna Dragofelis ΘΔ🏳️‍⚧️🐱Dec 3

@mitsunee if they have something like a ko-fi or patreon, you could put your money there

but ESPECIALLY small artists get so little from Spotify that it's useless to them. The Spotify availability is basically just exposure for them.

Succubard's Library Dec 3

Octavia Con Amore

@LunaDragofelis @mitsunee what Luna said

you giving $5 or $10 to an artist via a donation site of some sort will, in most cases, be more than they would ever earn from you through streaming payouts

and if you feel like you listen to their music a ton and feel bad about only giving them $5 or $10, just give them another $5 or $10 a year or two later

@OctaviaConAmore @LunaDragofelis@void.lgbt again I am not giving money to youtube. and by small artists I mean so small they have their stuff on youtube, maybe spotify and that's it. There is no "donation site" or anything. I think some of these people just like making art and only publish it elsewhere so people can enjoy it on the services they already have access to, which in 99% of cases is either YouTube or Spotify.

Succubard's Library Dec 3

Octavia Con Amore

@mitsunee @LunaDragofelis aaah, no ko-fi or patreon or anything... that's a hard one...

as a musician, I'd say YT over Spotify in terms of less shitty treatment of musicians, but I'm also biased

honestly, as a musician, I really appreciate that you're even asking and thinking about this

@mitsunee @mawr @hazelnoot do you have a right to constantly new contemt for free? Do the artists BENEFIT from this at all?
I'd like to remind you that artosts are paid a pittance on Spotify. If you pirate their stuff and send them 5 euros as a gift they get more than from your Spotify usage, ever.
This is and was and will always be about your convenience. If you want to help the bands, send them money and stop using Spotify.

@JaneraTiciano I'm not gonna repeat myself here, there are artists who do not accept any money anywhere and do not sell anything.

@mitsunee then just pirate them. They certainly won't get any more money from Spotify.
Who will get money from sotify is the owner, who invests it in weapons manufacturing.
So.
You can't hurt bands who don't want to make money by pirating. Hell, maybe they already offer their music for free to own on their website?
But you do hurt people by giving your money to Spotify.

@JaneraTiciano I'm not giving money to spotify either, I was included in a friend's family plan after much hesitation... I already said all this yesterday...

@mitsunee you just want people to absolve you for things you know to be wrong. Try the catholic church, they have confession.

@JaneraTiciano no I want to not repeat myself 50 times, but you are making me. I know what solutions y'all want, they don't seem to work for me and that's why I keep getting arguments that repeat ad infinitum.

@mitsunee the you might realize that your problem was engaging at all because what you are doing is telling everyone else that no solution can ever exist because your case is so very special it doesn't exist in reality. Seriously. I mean if you listen to Spotify's AI slop that might be the reason you can't find the artists who deserve to get your money.
Stop apologizing spotify by using it, endorsing its use and defending it. It's morally bancrupt.

@JaneraTiciano how the fuck do literally thousands of artists all over the world not exist?? Are you mental?

@JaneraTiciano like sorry but if your argument to people making art for fun is calling them AI slop, this is definitely no longer in good faith and insulting me won't get this anywhere either

@JaneraTiciano I also at no point said there's "no artists worth my money". Have you been to my profile?

Would someone who doesn't care spend hundreds literally importing an entire discography?

RE: https://mk.absturztau.be/notes/afu1kwadgtn904ig

m04 Dec 3

@mitsunee @mawr @hazelnoot i have a tidal subscription, they're definitely not morally good but i think they're at least a bit better than spotify? like they're at least not (to my knowledge) running ice recruitment ads or funding right wing podcasters
i haven't ever had any issues with music being available on spotify but not tidal, and i listen to a lot of smaller artists - i think normally artists will use a distribution service that makes their music available on all streaming platforms at once
another option if you're on android is to use youtube music revanced, it's a modified version of the yt music app that removes ads and gives you a bunch of paid features for free

but also , if you have access to a spotify family plan for free and can't afford anything else, i really don't blame you for continuing to use it!! we have to make do with what we have

MarkAssPandi Dec 4

@mitsunee @mawr @hazelnoot I agree with some points u mentioned in other comments but like
While youtube or apple music are def not any more ethical than spotify
Tidal from what I've seen has waaaaaay less controversial shit going on compared to any of these services. Afaik the largest thing they had was boosting Kanye West's views, which sucks but at the very least it happened before all the... Kanye stuff happened, so it still sucks but could suck more ig.
But yeah I agree with other stuff, music streaming landscape suuucks

Paula Babbicola Dec 4

@mitsunee @mawr @hazelnoot I listen to small latinamerican melodic hardcore bands on Tidal so I don’t think you’re gonna have troubles with music availability. Ask your favourite artists to upload to Tidal if they have music missing there, shouldn’t be an issue to contact them if they’re that small.

It’s also okay to admit that you don’t want to switch because you are getting it for free and you can’t or don’t want to pay for music streaming. Just don’t say excuses like “oh but my favourite artists are *probably* not there” because people *will* look for solutions for you, and you are kind of wasting people’s time by saying that the issue is a different one than the real issue (which is that you can’t or won’t pay for a streaming service. And I don’t blame you for not wanting to pay for streaming, but maybe a more ethical alternative is self hosting).

@paula I never asked for people to recommend further services because I've looked at enough of them myself, half of what keeps getting suggested goes into funding AI, just like YouTube and Spotify. I am not paying for the same "evil" elsewhere, that makes no sense at all.

Asking artists to spend time setting up more streaming services is wasting their time, especially those who don't even speak english, likely wouldn't read my messages and if they do would require a translator to help them setting up a service that maybe a handful of people would use. It's not as easy as opening a site, entering a name and dragging some mp3 files into the browser window.

I'd have no problem paying for my music again if I could, I have repeated that over and over in this thread and I'm tired of all the bad faith arguments here. I wouldn't include listening to music as one of my main hobbies on my profile and show of my CD collection any chance I get if I didn't want to pay for music. Not sure why I keeping getting those words shoved into my mouth everytime.

Paula Babbicola Dec 8

@mitsunee sorry, when people seem to agree that something is not ethical, generally they are hoping for solutions to stop doing the non ethical stuff. I know you didn’t directly ask, but indirectly that seemed like the purpose of the comment.

Re: messaging people in their native language, you could just use a translator. And I know it’s not dragging mp3 files but like someone else said, generally there’s services that just publish music to a bunch of options. Again, not sure what artists these are, but if they’re that small, they’ll be happy to receive a message from a fan, whether you ask for them to upload their music somewhere else or not.

Re: paying for music, I’m pretty sure I reworded my comment like 3-4 times to clarify that I meant for streaming music (vs paying for music in general). And like I said, it’s can’t or won’t, and just because you greatly enjoy it, and you could in the past, doesn’t mean you can right now, and I can’t judge you for just not having money for that.

Third spruce tree on the left Dec 3

@hazelnoot @mawr after the ICE ads were the last straw for us we found Qobuz:

> musicians receive approximately €0.018 per stream on Qobuz

.. which is one of the better ones we found (GF did all the research) and so far I haven't found anything from my Spotify lists that isn't also in Qobuz.

Stars&

@hazelnoot @mawr tidal

Raff Karva Dec 3

@hazelnoot @mawr

Assuming £13 p/m for subscription, after 10 years you’d have spend £1.5k. After those 10 years you’re left with nothing, you need to keep paying for subscription to listen to music.

If instead you were to buy and rip CDs or buy digital downloads straight from musicians, assuming £10 per album, same amount would give you 150 albums.

Assuming an average of 12 songs per album and 5 minutes per song, after spending £1.5k you’ll have 150 hours of music to listen to. An average person listens to music for 19 hours per week. That’s almost 8 weeks of not a single song repeating, or, to put it differently, hearing the same song not more than six times per year.

Plus, after those 10 years you don’t have to spend a single penny and are still left with 150 albums / 150 hours of music that you own.

You can also buy CDs in charity shops where one CD costs around £1, which will multiply my calculations x10.

Streaming is infinitely more expensive compared to buying. Not to mention all the points made in the initial post.

@RaffKarva Hear hear!! I'm a strong supporter of owning the music you listen to by whatever means. I've been weaning myself from all streaming providers for a long while now and host my own library via Plex to stream to my mobile devices, which is an excellent solution, but a lot more fiddly than most users are willing to engage with.

Going from physical media to something you can listen to on your phone has gotten more and more difficult as time has marched forward- on purpose, I suspect.

@mawr @RaffKarva what's the trouble? I have been ripping my cds into mp3 for 20 years, nowadays I just do it via iTunes and i can also just pull my bought itunes downloads onto my phone. As my current laptop has no cd drive anymore I bought an usb connected external cd/dvd drive. 40€. It already saved 3 movie evenings due to being code free.
The same technology as 20 years ago is available, I listen to my owned music from phone and laptop via Bluetooth speaker (teufel mynd 😉). Works fine!

Face Thumb Dec 14

@mawr @RaffKarva I just listen to music offline at home, but when I'm in the car or walking I listen to podcasts. Not listening to the Prodigy, Rage Against the Machine and QOTSA in the car makes me a better driver anyway.

Morgan ⚧️Dec 3

@RaffKarva @hazelnoot @mawr additionally: after x years of Spotify subscription, pretty much every penny you've paid into it goes to an evil corporation or one of the popular artists that already has a private jet. Spend the same amount on Bandcamp (or better, Mirlo or Faircamp) every month, and most of that money goes to the artists you're listening to. $15 is a drop in the bucket Spotify, but it makes a big difference to an impoverished artist.

@RaffKarva @hazelnoot @mawr

Chitchat Dec 3

...and the musicians make money from each CD sold

@RaffKarva @hazelnoot @mawr

Mark Gjøl Dec 4

@Cyclist I remember the time before streaming where people complained that musicians made next to nothing from CD sales due to greedy record companies. I doubt that has changed much.

@Gjoel @Cyclist @hazelnoot @mawr

Raff Karva Dec 4

It depends. If you buy from record companies or big chain stores, yes, that’s still true.

If on the other hand you buy directly from musicians after a live gig, all of your cash goes directly to those musicians (sometimes minus a small % to the venue depending on their contract).

I worked as a live music producer for over a decade. I will always recommend buying CDs/Vinyls with cash and handing money directly to the artist.

@Gjoel @Cyclist @hazelnoot @mawr

Raff Karva Dec 4

Btw, the same is true when you buy books.

If you buy from big stores, most of your cash goes to the publisher and the store.

If you buy a copy directly from the writer, all of your cash goes to them (again, sometimes minus a small % to the venue depending on their contract). Additionally, you can get them to sign the book/CD/Vinyl. Much more bang for buck for both the buyer and the artist.

Snow Dec 4

@hazelnoot @mawr I mean there's apple music if you have a iPhone

mkj Dec 4

@hazelnoot At least Qobuz also offers a trial month, so you can try them out at about as close to zero risk as you can get. And there are tools to migrate playlists.

@mawr

.kat 2 Dec 4

@hazelnoot@void.lgbt @mawr tidal is a good one

ein kleines z Dec 4

@hazelnoot @mawr
I think all the alternatives are smaller than Spotify and have fewer songs. Then again, do you really need every song that was ever published?

Alex Dec 5

@hazelnoot @mawr YouTube Music has a much better selection for my tastes, but I've never found a streaming service that has everything. Apple Music is about the best product they've made in the last 20 years (derogatory about Apple but complimentary about Apple Music), and Tidal is good too, but doesn't really have the sort of music I like.

This might help though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_music_streaming_services

Comparison of music streaming services - Wikipedia

Bjarne Dec 5

@hazelnoot @mawr There's Qobuz. As long as you wont miss having the ability to select a custom playlist cover art. There are some missing songs. But you can submit those and they do get added after a while. (I would assume as long as there are no weird licensing shenanigans going on).

Dexter Dec 5

@hazelnoot @mawr Quite a few. Apple Music, Tidal, Youtube Music, Qobuz, and there's a handful more I can't think of off the top of my head. Tidal s'posedly has the best pay for artists, but they did MQA so I don't trust them.

No service has every piece of published music (including Spotify). Apple, Spotify, and Youtube have the largest libraries.

I mostly use Apple Music and records/CDs as I can find them.

ansis Dec 14

@hazelnoot @mawr I've been using Tidal for quite some time now.

heafferfurfs Dec 3

@mawr grace suggested synfonium to me and I'm really enjoying it! Still migrating tracks over, but it seems great. You can stream a library built from multiple media sources!

@heatherhorns_lite That's really neat!!

heafferfurfs Dec 3

@mawr it's also only asking me $7 for lifetime use?? Maybe that's for each device because that's honestly wild

Also there appears to be software for ripping music from spotify, but idk how legit those are, honestly. But frankly, even stealing the music seems more ethical. Maybe offset it by buying a track off bandcamp and they'll honestly likely to be making more money from the sorry accounts they currently get.

Anyway, it's intimidating to leave a library behind, but this method's been great

Morgan ⚧️Dec 3

@heatherhorns_lite @mawr I'd much rather someone pay $0 for my music than have them pay money for it that I'll never see 🤷 and yeah, buying a single track is months or years of streaming revenue for the average indie artist, going by the numbers in the first link

Stars&

@mawr their ceo is funding ai powered war crimes as well. i don’t know the details but it sounded fuuuuuuucked

https://spotlight.ebu.ch/p/behind-the-spotify-boycott-daniel

@astronema I found a source talking about that and added it!

Spotify boycott: Daniel Ek, military AI, and misinformation

A Spotify boycott against CEO Daniel Ek’s defense tech investments was misconstrued. We examine claims linking his company, Helsing, to the conflict in Israel.

Eurovision News Spotlight

Mure, die Dec 3

@mawr
These are the reasons I made the switch to Qobuz this year - wasn't frictionless but I really like the service and quality.

Amazing sound quality, reasonable price, afaik transparent and fair pay for the artists, no AI music, found nearly everything I searched for. I miss the lyrics feature and the UI is a bit fiddly, but those are minor complaints