UBportsWhile some proprietary mobile OS vendors lock their phones and OS development to prevent community developers, we expect them to experiment, innovate and contribute to the project. Get inspired by Kugi!
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Ati@ubports Guys, what's your developement goal? Would UB Touch be able to run mainline Linux apps anytime soon? Flatpak? I've tried it, I liked OS but decision to have separate software repository is really far going. And I'm not talking "hard corpo stuff" like banking apps. Nor "fancy VR apps" I couldn't find a working podcast app back in spring. Checked it now and Podbirds last update is still 2021, Podphoenix 2023. Both not usable. Is that "Here, take this OS, make yourself some apps" approach?
@ati1 Our development goal is to create an alternative, that is Free Software, and based on Ubuntu in order to create choice.
Ubuntu Touch has always run Linux apps. The recommended way is to run them has done with Libertine containers, and now also with snaps.
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@ati1 The decision to use the Open-Store (possibly what you meant as a separate repository) to run applications for Ubuntu Touch, is what most smartphone users and app developers expect, it's also the only way to accommodate Ubuntu Touch app developers, because we use a different package format designed for the mobile OS use case (traditional packages can lead to non-functional apps, or even OS in some failure cases which are not acceptable for a smartphone).
@ati1 It would also be totally impractical not have the Open-Store, because it would require them to ship the packages to Debian, and then wait until there's a new release of Ubuntu on which we based a new version of Ubuntu Touch (we haven't even supported all LTS), so developers would have to become maintainers in Debian and Ubuntu (which are long processes that can take years), and developers users would have to wait more than two years for new applications.
@ati1 Even for updates on existing applications, it would take some time for due to the SRU process for updates of already included apps, and it would be unfair and unsecure in some cases if they didn't also update them on Debian (creating a lot more work). Therefore, not at all far going, it's just the reasonable choice, based on years of experience, of software distribution incorporated into the experience by Canonical and supported/maintained by us.
@ati1 There's currently nobody working on flatpak support. But someone worked on snap support, which is now included on the latest OS version.
@ati1 We are entirely a community based effort. The things that happen, are the things that the community agrees to do and makes happen.
Regarding podcastchers, there's a new fork of podbird, made by a comunity member.
We have plenty comunity members that use those podcathing applications, and are happy with them, we're not claiming they are perfect or don't have any bug, but they are certainly usable for many.
[Nima@NimaOS ~]#@ubports @ati1 I love the UI of UB Touch, the only major problem for me was the apps as well,
Libadwaita has made for some great mobile support for many apps, and being to run them easily would be pretty good.
Libertine was hit or miss when I tried it a while ago (probably fixed now), and felt like needing to do workarounds to run normal Linux apps, something like the Linux app support in ChromeOS.
IMO Droidian & Phosh do it best in the halium world, Maybe a hybrid solution would be better :D
@ati1 by the way, being able to run applications, doesn't mean they will all actually run, or will be usable. Most software on the Ubuntu Archive, or in repositories of distros made for PC/server use case, are not for multiple reasons like applications run-time life-cycle and UI/GUI usable on smartphones.
@ubports Ok so I guess I've just failed to use full potential of UB Touch because of just being a regular user with no technical knowledge in Linux / OS-es. That limited me to only use Open-Store and to a conclusion that most apps there are not actively maintained. Eg Podphoenix "worked" like ... somerimes, sometimes not, and had constant problems with keeping podcast list up to date / loosing random podcast episodes 4 ever etc. Browsers would not run web Messanger with encryption etc.
@ati1 wel that's the type of user we want to reach, but we understand that we're not yet ready for all of them.
Application maintenance depends on volunteers that created them to maintain them (and own them).
Not only the apps don't belong to us (neither the Open-Store by the way), and we can't (and shouldn't) order people.
The success of community efforts always depend on community participation.
@ubports Yeah sure. I'm not trying to "judge" anybody here. I am just a huge fan of FOSS and desktop Linux, decided to bring Linux to my daily driver phone as well ... or "die trying" XD. That said I just try to understand dynamics of Linux-in-mobile world/movement. And I thought you made kind of decision not to be Android already but also not being mainline Linux yet. Thought that implies complete lack of compatibility with existing Linux apps and a need to build completely separate app world.
@ubports And I was just like "well that's an ambitious goal to have" ... but in a world of limited resoruces with FOSS devs already not paid / underpaid / too rare ;) is that reasonable to divert collective effort to have another linux on mobile project kind of going sideways. But if you're providing snap support already / going in that direction that's a different story. Good luck and thanks for all your work 👍
@ati1 We haven't made any decision like that. Not really sure where you got that idea. Also we're not Android. We use the Android Kernel, and some firmware necessary for hardware enablement, but that's it.
Being mainline would mean not being able to support almost any device, especially supporting it fully, and not being able to be a solution for most people. We are not aiming to be niche.
Not using the mainline kernel, doesn't mean what you're saying it means.
Being mainline would mean not being able to support almost any device, especially supporting it fully, and not being able to be a solution for most people. We are not aiming to be niche.
Not using the mainline kernel, doesn't mean what you're saying it means.
@ati1 App support is mostly a question that has nothing to do with supporting mainline kernel, but mostly everything else that is actually not mainline kernel. And we're not aiming to abandon our system design and frameworks that on our opinion, make it more reliable as a solution for most smartphone users.
@ubports Yep. Totally clear to me that you de doing whatever you want with your system. Just wanted to say I am surprised you made a linux system that doesn't run linux apps, needs its own app ecosystem, and that ecosystem is unusable to me. With apps not updated for months or years and either not working at all or not as intended. I can't see how that would be good for most smartphone users so I wanted to learn from you. Like what's the idea here? But I guess it's none of my business...
@ati1 It's not true that it doesn't run Linux apps, alls apps that run on Ubuntu Touch are Linux apps, this includes those that were done specifically to run on Ubuntu Touch, and those weren't, but do run.
@ubports That's good news. So said I guess instalation process of apps like KDE Kasts is a bit too hard for an average smartphone user. Or at least I didn't manage this one and many others run.
@ati1 It's not news. That app will likely not work, or not work properly. You're confusing concepts, or intentionally narrowing them down.
We never said all software made to run on Linux will work, or work properly on Ubuntu Touch. This is reality for all distributions of all types.
@ubports I am not a linux dev. Just a regular user trying to rely on FOSS software as much as I can. What I see is there are Linux distros working on Android phones that can run many apps just fine. Like 2 or 3 different actively maintained and working podcast players to stick to that example. And there's UT that is very promissing, runs on european made hardware etc, but there are none working podcast players to use. There's one, not maintained, not working, and different than in other distros
@ati1 The fact that we have users who listen to podcasts on the applications that are available on the Open Store, prove that there are working podcast players.
@ubports Ok. So I was one of them. Untill I realise it refreshes some of the podcast I subscribed to, from time to time. And sometimes not. For a month or two. And then it crashes 5 times a day. Maybe it was some problem specific to my setup. And a year or so ago. Ultimately it all gets better over time right?
@ubports Or to put it differently I am using desktop Ubuntu for quite some time. I can use most of apps i know from desktop Ubuntu on ... PostmarketOS. And as far as I remember none of them on Ubuntu Touch. I am just wondering why it looks like that? Guess it is a result of a decision somebody made at some point right? So why that way? I don't try to judge it nor tell you what you should do. I am just curious cos it kinda looks like a harder way to usable system? To make apps all over again?
@ubports If (with a bit of neccessary skills) you can set up UB Touch with mainline Linux actively maintained apps working in Libertine containers ... and they do work not taking 90% resources each ... that's a whole different story. I mean like KDE / Gnome apps and others. Like not ditching 30 years of collective FOSS Linux apps developement and trying to "invent a wheel" once again with limited resources leading to lack of continuous maintenance. So - good to know it works for more techy ppl 👍
@ati1 Libertine containers are not hard do use, but they require some previous knowledge indeed.
Ubuntu Touch is build on Ubuntu, there would be no way in which we would be throwing any legacy out of the window. However, as we said on other tweets, it's likely most of that software will fail to be run or be usable on smartphones, because they work differently and have different user interfaces, and app GUIs are not designed and built to adapt.
@ubports Well ... I am using PostmarketOS now with a few Gnome apps, few KDE ones and some others daily with no problems whatsoever. Nearly 20 of them apart from basic ones like calc/phone/sms/file browser etc. They scale and work just fine... Tuba, Gnome Podcasts / KDE Kasts, Firefox, Iotas, Gapless, Amberol, Cinny, Delta Chat (apart of notifications) and so on ... password managers, photo viewers, also Pure Maps ... Really only thing that stops me from selling iPhone are in talk sound settings
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