Daniel Terhorst-North
The Long Tail@tastapod please don't use the Jujutsu hashtag, please use #jj_vcs or something similar.
Two hard problems and all.
@sleepyfox erm, it means both? So unfortunately there is going to be a hash collision, literally! Bounded contexts and all that. (Also the martial art is jujitsu, I will not be taking questions.)
@tastapod The martial art is 柔術, which is anglicised as both Jujutsu and Jujitsu (and other variants, like Jiu-jitsu, but who's counting).
As there are very very many Jujutsu practitioners on Mastodon, and comparatively few jj-vcs people, and the former predates the latter by about 13 centuries, please do the right thing.
As there are very very many Jujutsu practitioners on Mastodon, and comparatively few jj-vcs people, and the former predates the latter by about 13 centuries, please do the right thing.
@sleepyfox I was being facetious about the spelling. I’m a former jitsuka.
The product is literally called jujutsu so unless you can convince them to change the name, it’s likely to become the tag. I will happily use #jjscm but then no one will find it.
I used to get lots of Body Dysmorphic Disease posts on the #bdd tag on Twitter. You tune them out. Or you could replace your tag subscription with a search for #jujutsu - “jj”. That might work.
@tastapod So people campaigning against cultural appropriation should just shut up and accept it?
No, I will choose to do the right thing, and encourage others to do so also.
No, I will choose to do the right thing, and encourage others to do so also.
@sleepyfox I'm afraid you had better start with the product team then. If the project is literally called 'jujutsu' then the horse may already have bolted.
See also: every open source product named after an existing thing. I imagine the #homebrew folks are disgruntled too.
Policing the internet is not a good look. And using 'cultural appropriation' about a product name is a good way to undermine actual cultural appropriation, but I can't stop you from 'doing the right thing', or something.
@tastapod Dan, please stop accusing me of "policing the Internet", I'm simply asking someone to think of others.
I didn't say it *was* cultural appropriation, I was drawing an analogy to a phenomenon where people stand up for an existing thing being inappropriately used by people who don't understand the history and importance of the existing thing.
Yes, founders of organisations need to take a look at themselves and do the Google Test with any name that they come up with, because this is a bad one.
And don't get me started on https://www.aikido.dev/
I didn't say it *was* cultural appropriation, I was drawing an analogy to a phenomenon where people stand up for an existing thing being inappropriately used by people who don't understand the history and importance of the existing thing.
Yes, founders of organisations need to take a look at themselves and do the Google Test with any name that they come up with, because this is a bad one.
And don't get me started on https://www.aikido.dev/
@sleepyfox I'm a former jitsuka myself (this is my lot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jitsu_Foundation, I trained with Steve D and Dave Walker). I find it endearing when western groups adopt Japanese cultural references because they are 'cool'. See also UK kids using American accents in their games.
So agile practitioners talking about shu-ha-ri (and getting it wrong), process folks talking about kaizen (and getting it wrong), and the others, are just par for the course.
And telling me how to use tags is policing.
Chris Pitts
@thirstybear @sleepyfox This Is Fine™️
@tastapod @sleepyfox NOOOOO!!!!! The wrong! It burns!!!!!
@tastapod Believe me, I understand.. I am a former Jujutsuka (Hontai-Yoshin Ryu under Mike McClure at the Budokwai in London), and continuing Aikidoka (under Mike Hurley of the CAA).
The project's team have already decided to go with "sunk cost fallacy" for $10, as can be seen here https://github.com/jj-vcs/jj/discussions/2520
All I'm asking is for you to be part of the solution, not the problem, and use the #jj_vcs hashtag, which is the name of the GitHub repo itself.
Or any other qualified hashtag, #jujutsu_version_control, whatever you like.
The project's team have already decided to go with "sunk cost fallacy" for $10, as can be seen here https://github.com/jj-vcs/jj/discussions/2520
All I'm asking is for you to be part of the solution, not the problem, and use the #jj_vcs hashtag, which is the name of the GitHub repo itself.
Or any other qualified hashtag, #jujutsu_version_control, whatever you like.
@sleepyfox as you can see, hyphens don’t work in hashtags on mastodon. I don’t get to tell the product team which hashtag they should use, and if I’m asking a question about jj then I want to reach its users on mastodon. That’s what hashtags do. Sadly they aren’t namespaced.
@tastapod Form follows function. If we do the right thing, others will follow.
@sleepyfox I suspect you think I have more influence than I do.
It’s not my project. I don’t get to determine the hashtags. Posting with random tags won’t suddenly create a gravity well, I’ll just be posting into the void while all the jj users on here never get to see my questions. As I said, I don’t make the rules:
Enrique Comba Riepenhausen🇺🇦@tastapod @sleepyfox what a fascinating conversation, really. On the other hand I feel like you are talking yourselves too seriously and splitting hairs for some reason. Yes cultural appropriation is a problem, but trying to make someone not responsable for it spreading seem right either. And I’ll stop here as I don’t want to be dragged into this (might be too late for that)
@sleepyfox @ecomba where we differ is that I honestly don't think it is a problem, and that anyone following a #jujutsu hashtag will likely recognize and ignore a post about the {martial art | version control system | meta-conversation about hashtags } that they don't care about.
I was pushing back on being bullied on the internet, however mildly. That is the unacceptable behaviour, not reusing hashtags. Yes, saying 'please do the right thing' and 'there are more of us than you' is bullying.
@sleepyfox @ecomba yep, and that’s not what you did, nor how you followed it up. Nor how you doubled down.
Starts about here:
Not🐧A🐧Convicted🐧Felon (@sleepyfox@hachyderm.io)
@tastapod@mas.to The martial art is 柔術, which is anglicised as both Jujutsu and Jujitsu (and other variants, like Jiu-jitsu, but who's counting). As there are very very many Jujutsu practitioners on Mastodon, and comparatively few jj-vcs people, and the former predates the latter by about 13 centuries, please do the right thing.
@sleepyfox @ecomba clearly. And I stand up to that kind of passive-aggressive pushing around. Luckily it’s the internet so we both get to be ourselves in plain sight.
@sleepyfox @ecomba I appreciate your taking the self-appointed role of victim in this exchange, in which you led with wellakshually kanjis (could have checked first if I had a clue what I was talking about) and then attempted to obligate me in your stable door exercise about someone else’s choice of product name and subsequent hashtag.
If you still can’t see your own agency and choices in this, I won’t be surprised when you do it again.
@ecomba oops, I think I just got blocked by @sleepyfox
@tastapod 🤷🏽♂️ this has been a very fascinating exchange though. When someone gets confronted they don’t usually like it, specially when they can’t see that the whole exchange was initiated by their not-very-tactful way of trying to convey their point of view. Oh well…
Don’t mourn the block too much… (that was sarcastic)
@ecomba I mean, that was… odd, right?
@sleepyfox so I read that thread and now I’m confused. You are fine for jj to appropriate Japanese culture, just not _your_ Japanese culture?
‘JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure’ is a successful anime series, and you are advocating for that to be its open source project name instead?
I’m not sure which one of us is ‘part of the problem’ here.
@tastapod No. Nonononono.
What I am trying (and obviously failing) to say is that the team has already chosen not to change the name, even though some members seemed to think it was a good idea, because over 3 years ago they thought "The more time that passes with the Jujutsu name, the more likely it is that we'll keep it", because "there is plenty of third-party writing about it. It would be a shame to lose that connection while the underlying model is the same." - i.e. #SunkCostFallacy
I made no judgement on their choice of candidate for the name change, merely pointed out that the conversation and decision about renaming had already happened.
What I am trying (and obviously failing) to say is that the team has already chosen not to change the name, even though some members seemed to think it was a good idea, because over 3 years ago they thought "The more time that passes with the Jujutsu name, the more likely it is that we'll keep it", because "there is plenty of third-party writing about it. It would be a shame to lose that connection while the underlying model is the same." - i.e. #SunkCostFallacy
I made no judgement on their choice of candidate for the name change, merely pointed out that the conversation and decision about renaming had already happened.
@sleepyfox fwiw I just tried `#jujutsu -jj -git -vcs` as a search and it does 99% of what you want.
Be like water!
(Yes I know that's a kung fu reference.)
@sleepyfox It really isn't sunk cost fallacy and you know it. When Hudson renamed to Jenkins, all the tutorials fell off the internet overnight. It took a while for the various authors to catch up, and even then there was a long tail of super useful information that got lost.
Names matter. Brands matter. Jujutsu VCS is already a brand, and becoming more popular all the time.
When git started, a lot of people found the name offensive. Now most git users don't even know it's an insult.