WuzyIreland is adopting a default 30 kmh (19 mph) speed limit in urban areas
Many cities in Switzerland are implementing the same, but there is significant opposition from the rural areas. I hope we will arrive at 30km/h in all urban areas.
More incentive fo bikes and public transit if taking a car is more obnoxious (and safer for pedestrians)
Exactly. We have excellent public transport (possibly the best in the world, tied with Japan) and distances are short because the country is so small.
Buses generally don’t go fast anyway in urban areas
They do, it’s just the average speed is low because they have to stop every few hundred meters.
Probably one of those cultural things that differs by locale
I once had a grad class that let out at at 10pm. On the bus ride to class, I was fine. On the ride from class my stomach was in my throat, all the nausea. After a few classes I figured out the difference: on the way to class, there was traffic and people getting on and off. On the home the bus just booked it over all the potholes because it didn’t have up constantly stop.
That’s also when I learned Dramamine [anti-nausea med] makes me wicked nauseous on an empty stomach.
Why? The rural areas are by definition not urban.
They are.
For any built up area with appropriate signage, the urban speed limit gets applied.
Also a large chunk of the rural population is commuting by car, and has to change their (driving) habits, and changing habits takes effort.
Right, do if an area isn’t rural, it’s not considered rural.
It’s different in Europe. When they say “rural”, they mean any small town not adjacent to a city or other conurbation.
The density of small towns that have hundreds of years of history but are only 5-10km apart from the next 3-4 towns surrounding it are in a stark contrast to the 20-50km distances between North American towns. And rural farms are relatively rare. Farmers generally still live in the small town and then drive their tractor out to the fields.
Okay. How are they impacted by rules on urban development?
Because also the small rural village is classified as “urban” so it need to follow the same general law.
Rural and urban are not mutually exclusive
They are literally antonyms
Here urban is loosely defined as everything inside the city/town/village perimeter, with no reference to where the city/town/village is located.
Right, and rural would be the opposite, anywhere outside that perimeter.
Yes,but there are two different definitions ar work here: Traffic laws vs sociology/geography/common speech. According to traffic law, it’s almost impossible to live in a rural area, because all areas settled by humans are considered urban for the sake of traffic regulations. Otherwise, “urban” references cities and “rural” everything not a city. A “rural town” makes perfect sense in common speech, but is an oxymoron in traffic legalese.
So everything inside the perimeter of a city/town/village is urban and therefor under the urban law traffic code, even if the village is in the middle of nowhere.
We are discussing traffic laws. I doubt that where you live the traffic laws that are valid inside the biggest city are different from the ones valid in a small village in the middle of nowhere (with the due exceptions)
We are discussing traffic laws. I doubt that where you live the traffic laws that are valid inside the biggest city are different from the ones valid in a small village in the middle of nowhere (with the due exceptions)
“We would like to set a speed limit in the cities.”
“Yo boss, the people from the countryside are protesting about your law in the cities.”
What
Could be people commuting
Duck them.
We mostly commute by train cause we have amazing public transportation, unfortunately they are working on cutting the discount for frequent travelers because too many people are using it (about 1/3 of the country). This will lead to public transport being more expensive than owning and commuting by car for many.
ObiHow does no one in this thread realise that these “urban areas” speed limits also apply to all the tiny villages that are currently 50kph. In Europe any time you pass a village entry sign you are now in an urban area as far as speed limit goes.
trollercoasterIt’s because many people, especially in the “car bad” crowd, don’t give a fuck about the rules of the road as long as they don’t see any personal benefit for themselves in others obeying them.
MisterFrogWeird take.
I’m in the “car bad” crowd (actually, it’s the "car useful, but should be mostly for emergency services, disabled people, deliveries, etc. including in rural areas for people who need it)
I care very much about the rules, and how it affects everyone. Rules make driving safer. Having 30km/hr default doesn’t prevent a town from putting up signs on certain roads to increase the limit…
This law is also good for town life, because side streets become more pleasant and safer by default.
Like, it’s not making the limit 30 km/hr on a rural highway…
Localhorst86I mean, that’s how I read it, too. It’s going to be the default for any urban area, cities of millions, towns of dozens.
But that doesn’t stop rural towns from increasing the speed limit by posting a 50kph sign, either where it is reasonable, or overall. When you enter any town/city-limits by car, you need to slow down to 30kph, unless there is a speed sign allowing for higher or lower speeds.
But that doesn’t stop rural towns from increasing the speed limit by posting a 50kph sign, either where it is reasonable, or overall. When you enter any town/city-limits by car, you need to slow down to 30kph, unless there is a speed sign allowing for higher or lower speeds.
kph
Are you from the USA or something? It’s km/h.
Hot take: Rural drivers shouldn’t get a say in how urban roads are designed
It’s not their city. They don’t live in it. They can stay in their town if they don’t like it
My thoughts exactly!
That sounds fair but urban people don’t seem to have any issue with forcing their opinions on speed limits on rural people. If it works one way then why not the other?
They can drive however they want in their villages. But they need to follow our rules when they come to town.
They can drive however they want in their villages
They can’t though, they have to follow rules and speed limits that are set by people not in their villages.
What are you talking about? If Lausanne sets a speed limit of 30 km/hr in Lausanne that does not change the speed limit in Morrens or Bercher or Savigny.
The article literally states that Ireland’s department of transport lowered the default rural road limits for the country in February, that’s exactly the sort of thing I had in mind.
The article literally states that Ireland’s department of transport lowered the default rural road limits for the country in February, that’s exactly the sort of thing I had in mind.
No. The article states that URBAN is speed limit is set at 30km/h. RURAL road is already limited to 60km/h.
RURAL road is already limited to 60km/h.
That is what I said, yes. The point was that rural people in the same country as this urban change have already had their roads affected by people who don’t live near and use said roads.
How are they not affected? No one lives on rural roads. Everyone lives on urban roads. Rural roads are for driving between urban areas.
I don’t know about Ireland, but in a lot of countries a lot of people live along rural roads.
And a lot of people walk or bike along rural roads, they also deserve to live safely.
You’re responding to a comment using Swiss speed limits as an example. Here in Switzerland changes in the speed in an urban area do not cause changes in rural areas.
And you’re commenting in a thread about Ireland, so I used a more relevant example. Nonetheless, I expect even Switzerland has things like country wide default speed limits and has its rural road speed limits set by a group in cities or at least the regional centres rather than each village getting to freely choose its own for the roads around it.
Anyways, I suppose I should thank you for providing more evidence that drivers are selfish morons.
Is it not crazy to think that people in rural areas also enjoy the city and go to urban areas? It’s still the same country.
As visitors though. I don’t think their needs are irrelevant, but they shouldn’t carry as much weight as the daily users’
Not sure it’s visiting necessarily if it’s their nearest urban center, as then it would be their main source of a lot of stuff so it’s theirs too.
So the inhabitants of small towns driving daily to work to the next city get a say? I don’t know about Switzerland, but in my area these are a considerate amount, if not the majority of cars in smaller cities. Most don’t need a car living in the city, but you cannot commute into the city without in most cases.
They can stay in their town if they don’t like it
Literally no. By definition small towns don’t have a lot of things in them, and so the things they do have tend to be pretty basic. If you need specialist medicine, for example, you definitely will have to go to a major city. And that’s not even getting into the open countryside people, who exist in at least the less dense European countries.
I mean, you can still hold the position they shouldn’t get a say, but not that they can totally opt out of whatever is decided.
Well, if they want to come to the city they should leave their car outside and take public transit or a bike.
If that’s a viable option, definitely, but it isn’t always and I can tell you public transport in Ireland is incomplete at best.
Okay, sure. But they will have to do it, and you will need some parking on the outskirts.
If they don’t want to live where there is nothing then they shouldn’t have chosen to live where there is nothing
Wait? Do you ever eat food? I’m guessing you do. That comes from the middle of nowhere for the most part. Certain other products too.
If you open a history book, it’s cities that are optional. Yes, people who choose to be farmers or otherwise live outside of cities have to deal with long commutes to a city when they need something. If they were banned from even doing that, there’d just be starvation.
It’s not the farmers that clog up cities’ streets
Hmm. What point are you making? Should they stay out of towns or not?
Who is they? Farmers? It doesn’t matter. In developed nations less than 1% of the population are farmers. And those few don’t drive into the cities every day for work, because why would they.
Kokesh