WanderWisleyThe next 24-48hrs is going to be an entertaining meltdown.
KelvarCherry [They/Them]I hope what we take most from this is that 2026, 2028 is NOT “too early” or “too high stakes” for an ACTUAL progressive campaign. The DNC has used that argument 3x with Trump and lost said elections twice (only winning 2020 because Trump bombed w/ Covid-19). I’m certain we’ll hear it again in the next two national elections.
Having a competent populist leftist politician is not a detraction. Quite the opposite. NO to Gruesome Newsom
Just to be very clear, the DNC leadership is antagonistic to our (I assumed) shared goals.
The Democrats are obviously what needs to be supported in a 2 party system, so regardless of the DNC antics, the sacrifice for not choosing them will be more severe, and they know that.
I’m saying this all to say, absolutely support a progressive candidate if you can in the primaries, but when it comes election time, fall in line.
Also, there is a big problem where Mamdani is supremely clever and fast on his feet, having practiced every comeback a million times in the shower, ready to let them rip on command.
At the federal there is no one with that level of natural charisma or wit.
That’s something important to point out.
I’m saying this all to say, absolutely support a progressive candidate if you can in the primaries, but when it comes election time, fall in line.
No.
A candidate campaigns for MY vote.
The Democratic establishment can prove they aren’t an obstacle to progress, me blindly voting for them is no longer a grace I automatically extend to a party hellbent on sabotaging progressives even if it means losing to literal fascists.
Sure, and compromise is inherent to democracy. So go vote for who you want in the primaries, and vote against who you don’t want in the general.
Any/every democracy?
I meant to imply the USA does not have one.
Last time this primary vs general was paid attention to (internationally at least), it was because Bernie was about to out-primary Hillary and then the Democrats figuratively put their thumb on the scale and gave it to Hillary.
I absolutely understand even a dead rat would be better president than the Pedophile in Chief you have now. But the people of the USA barely have a very indirect path to elect their representatives… this is a democracy like Cheetos are “food”
Okay. I meant to imply that any democracy (practically by definition) is based on compromise, which is why I said that straight up instead of snarkily trying to bash the USA.
As for the Hillary-Bernie thing… At then end of the primary, Hillary had like 3 million more votes than Bernie did. Notably, Bernie conceeded to Hillary and even campaigned for her, because he knew that she was much better than trump, and democracy is inherently a compromise.
Okay. I meant to imply that any democracy (practically by definition) is based on compromise, which is why I said that straight up instead of snarkily (and unhelpfully) bashing the USA.
I’m sorry but not recognizing the flavour of democracy the USA has is broken is a problem. It’s like telling starving kids of Gaza that broccoli is a nutritious snack… that may be true but the issue is not they are picky eaters, the problem is that there is no food
As for the Hillary-Bernie thing… At then end of the primary, Hillary had like 3 million more votes than Bernie did. Notably, Bernie conceeded to Hillary and even campaigned for her, because he knew that she was much better than trump, and democracy is inherently a compromise.
Here you go: nbcnews.com/…/why-sanders-new-hampshire-victory-w…
I’m sorry
No you aren’t, don’t lie.
…not recognizing the flavour of democracy the USA has is broken is a problem.
I never claimed that democracy in the US wasn’t broken. If you think I did, please point specific statements.
Here you go…
How many votes did Bernie get in the primary, and how many did Hillary get? I can understand being upset about the results of the primary if Bernie had received more votes than Hillary, and then the DNC nominated Hillary anyway, but that didn’t happen. He lost the primary, and thus he was not the candidate. He knows that democracy is a compromisea, and he not just voted for, but publicly supported and campaigned for Hillary after he lost the nomination.
I’m sorry
No you aren’t, don’t lie.
It’s an expression… I am not sorry, I have nothing to be sorry for, neither do you, we are just debating
I never claimed that democracy in the US wasn’t broken. If you think I did, please point specific statements.
You offered a solution based on a working democracy which is not the case here… why do you offer one if you know it won’t work? Again, following my analogy… why would you offer broccoli for the kids in Gaza when there is none?
How many votes did Bernie get in the primary, and how many did Hillary get?..
How many votes did Bernie lost when the Democrats said Hillary would be chosen regardless? From the link you did not read:
The Cook Political Report estimated late last month that Clinton’s early advantage with superdelegates meant that she effectively started the race eight points above Sanders in the race to get enough delegates to secure the nomination.
You offered a solution based on a working democracy which is not the case here… why do you offer one if you know it won’t work?
Please provide specifics, otherwise you are just talking around what I actually wrote.
I did read your link. Do two things for me here. First, look up how many votes (not delegates but votes) Bernie and Hillary got in the primary. Second, please recognize that I am talking about direct votes for a candidate, not the delegates. Let me know if you think a working democracy is one where the lesw popular candidate gets the nomination.
Please provide specifics, otherwise you are just talking around what I actually wrote.
You recommended this:
So go vote for who you want in the primaries, and vote against who you don’t want in the general.
And I claimed that sucks because there is no real democracy (even in the primaries).
Again I repeat (as many others while you keep on ignoring them in this thread), the problem here is that you keep on painting a picture where people have a say which is not the case. People’s desires during primaries (where you claim people should vote for who they like) is consistently manipulated and slanted whichever way the party wants… then you want those same people to support the party that just wipe their hypothetical ass with the people’s opinion.
Look at Mamdani’s run for Mayor… the very Democrats did everything in their power to torpedo his candidacy and campaign… yet you expect people to vote for whichever stooge they tell them to vote for
So go vote for who you want in the primaries, and vote against who you don’t want in the general.
Alright. Please highlight in that statement where I said that the US was a perfectly functional and not systemically broken democracy?
Again I repeat (as many others while you keep on ignoring them in this thread), the problem here is that you keep on painting a picture where people have a say which is not the case.
Funny that you wrote this… And in the very next paragraph mentioned Mamdani winning despite the opposition from political insiders.
I don’t think you are in a position to judge the fairness of an election process, as you seem convinced that Bernie should have been the DNC nominee despite losing by 3 million votes in the primary ( and again, that is votes not delegates) And yes, I’m going to call you out on that until you walk it back.
Alright. Please highlight in that statement where I said that the US was a perfectly functional and not systemically broken democracy?
Ok bud, you are just being pedantic now… I have explained it 1000x times…
The gist is, what you said makes sense in a working democracy… even by your own admission, the USA does not have that… ergo, what you said is not really a good enough advice.
Funny that you wrote this… And in the very next paragraph mentioned Mamdani winning despite the opposition from political insiders
Correct, to highlight that you are asking people to compromise with the Democrats when the Democrats would not compromise with the people.
This is all plain to see… you just want to “be right” for internet points
Ok bud, you are just being pedantic now… I have explained it 1000x times…
Being pedantic matters here, because you are countering a position I didn’t make. If you don’t want me to be pedantic about it, then either show I made the argument (by quoting it) or drop the argument.
Correct, to highlight that you are asking people to compromise with the Democrats when the Democrats would not compromise with the people.
Pretry sure Democrats did compromise with the people who voted in their primary. That’s the whole point of having a primary…