toomanypancakesNov 3

What are you confident you could win an argument about?

https://piefed.world/post/605013

What are you confident you could win an argument about?

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Show threaddecended_being
That being vegan is an ethical choice compared to not being vegan.
Nov 3 at 9:55pmWeb
Show threadAmidFurorNov 3
Sure, if you don't mind breeding vegetables for your own greedy enjoyment, I guess you can get on a high horse just because you don't also abuse animals.
Show threadcommieNov 4
most people don’t abuse animals
Show threadOBJECTION!Nov 4
Growing plants to eat kills fewer plants than growing plants to feed to livestock which you then eat. The “plants’ rights activist” argument is invalid.
Show threadcommieNov 4
they’re both ethical choices. like in the trolley problem, pulling the lever or not.
Show threadchetradleyNov 4
Curious to hear your explanation for how being non-vegan can be more ethical than being vegan. I’ve heard some people make interesting cases for this, by the way, but I’ve yet to see one that can be practically applied as an alternative to our current food system.
Show threadcommieNov 4

your explanation for how being non-vegan can be more ethical than being vegan

boy, that’s not what i said.

Show threadchetradleyNov 4

Help me out here then. You said being vegan and not being vegan are both ethical choices, like the trolley problem.

In the trolley problem, an ethical case can be made for pulling the lever or not, so I thought you were saying an ethical argument could be made for both being vegan and not being vegan. I was curious to hear your argument for the latter.

Can you elaborate on what you actually meant?

Show threadcommieNov 4

I thought you were saying an ethical argument could be made for both being vegan and not being vegan

right. that’s not the same as saying one is more ethical.

Show threadchetradleyNov 4
What’s your ethical argument for not being vegan?
Show threadcommieNov 4
there is no ethical duty to be vegan. so not being vegan is a valid choice. the choice to be vegan is amoral.
Show threadchetradleyNov 4
Are you saying that morality does not factor into how humans treat animals?
Show threadcommieNov 4
that’s not what I said
Show threadchetradleyNov 5
You keep making claims without elaborating on them. If you just don’t want to talk about it, that’s cool.
Show threadcommieNov 5
what Ive said is all true. if you disagree, explain why.
Show threadchetradleyNov 5
How could I agree or disagree if I have no reasoning for your position? You made the claim that veganism is amoral, that’s an uncommon and interesting position. I’m curious about your reasoning.
Show threadcommieNov 5
i explained my reasoning. it’s not a moral duty. it’s not immoral. it’s amoral.
Show threadchetradleyNov 5

I disagree with your line of logic then. Something doesn’t need to be a moral duty to be moral. It’s not a moral duty for a poor person to donate to charity, but being charitable is a moral act.

Similarly, you can probably point to edge cases where the following line of logic cannot be applied broadly due to people’s circumstances.

For me personally,

  • Livestock animals are sentient, they display a preference to live and be free from suffering and confinement.

  • I do not need to purchase animal products to be healthy and happy.

  • In the absence of necessity, intentionally confining, harming and killing animals is not morally justifiable.

    • Show threadcommieNov 5
    there are three categories: moral duty, amoral, and immoral. if we can’t agree on that, you are not qualified to discuss morality.
    Show threadchetradleyNov 5
    There are also moral virtues.
    Show threadcommieNov 5

    in the absence of necessity, intentionally confining, harming and killing animals

    almost no one does that, whether they are vegan or not

    Show threadchetradleyNov 5
    The industries that I choose not to financially support do, hence why I don’t support them.