Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

https://www.threads.com/@nthmonkey/post/DQVdAD1gHhw

Matt Rosenberg (@nthmonkey) on Threads

My brother in law died in June. Heart attack. Four hours in the hospital and gone. And then the bills came. He’d let his insurance lapse two months prior. Bills were a few thousand here for the cardiologist, another few there for the ER docs, a bit for the radiologist. I helped my sister-in-law negotiate these down but they weren’t back breakers. Then the hospital bill came: $195k. This is a story about that.

Threads

I fought insurance over this past summer after they declined covering a life saving surgery for my 6-year-old child at the last minute. We were in despair that my child's life was at risk each day we waited because of insurance incompetence.

ChatGPT literally guided me through the whole external appeal process, who to contact outside of normal channels to ask for help / apply pressure, researched questions I had, helped with wording on the appeals, and yes, helped keep me pushing forward at some of the darkest moments when I was grasping for anything, however small, to help keep the pressure up on the insurance company.

I didn't follow everything it suggested blindly. Definitely decided a few times to make decisions that differed from its advice partially or completely, and I sometimes ran suggested next steps by several close friends/family to make sure I wasn't missing something obvious. But the ideas/path ChatGPT suggested, the chasing down different scenarios to rule in/out them, and coaching me through this is what ultimately got movement on our case.

10 days post denial, I was able to get the procedure approved from these efforts.

21 days post denial and 7 days after the decision was reversed, we lucked into a surgery slot that opened up and my child got their life saving surgery. They have recovered and is in the best health of the past 18 months.

This maybe isn't leveling the playing field, at least not entirely. But it gave us a fighting chance on a short timeline and know where to best use our pressure. The hopeful part of me is that many others can use similar techniques to win.

Non-US person here.

Happy for your happy-end to that story!

Though why do you Americans put up with all this? I have heard the US is a democracy. So then insurance-based healthcare is what American people truly want?

I think the reason is that people know it is a problem but ideologically they really disagree about what to do about it. The impasse creates an opportunity for profit driven actors to fight reforms. Also, democracies do dumb things sometimes. See Brexit.

But also, sometimes people from other countries-- I am thinking parts of Europe-- underestimate how well paid people in the US often are. They compare the averages, like the US only makes 20% more per household, why do they put up with this or that. But that comparison is for the whole country, so imagine if you were comparing all of Europe or China.

I had a friend in Spain at a similar company as mine say, how can you put up with no safety net, etc. But I look at his company and every one at my company at any level gets paid 2-5x as much. So like these are less serious issues if you are paid an extra $1-200k/ year. It doesn't explain the inaction, but I believe it is why a lot of politically influential people don't care.

As a non-american (from South America) who lived in both USA an Europe:

Yes, in USA you get much more money, like you said 2x~5x, but then:

University is expensive as fck.
Health care is expensive as fck.
You have 5 days of paid sick leave per year in most companies.
You have 10 days of paid holidays per year in most companies.

In contrast, in Europe:
University was cheap or free.
Healthcare is cheap and universal.
If you are sick you are sick, either the company or the health insurance pay.
You have between 20 and 30 days of paid holidays.

This is why quality of life in Europe, is so superior. And again, I am saying this as a non-European.

>> University is expensive as fck.

While healthcare is brought up all the time this is usually ignored. The idea of parents saving a 'college fund' for their child is something I only know from movies. It's such a strange idea that access to education would be something you either need to be able to afford or need to get a 'scholarship' for (another strange concept).

Implicit in all these stories is that "education" means "access to highly selective universities". In-state tuition at Directional State University is much more manageable.
Not really. I went to a public land grant university 20 years ago and paid about $12k a year in state. That same university is now $44k per year.
Both my kids went to UIUC and we paid about $15k/yr, and both my kids graduated within the last couple years. And UIUC isn't a Directional State University; it's the flagship of the UI system. You can just look this up: tuition numbers aren't secret.

Ok I will. This claims the cost of attendance is $36,930-$42,310 per year:

https://www.admissions.illinois.edu/invest/tuition

This claims $21k per semester:

https://cost.illinois.edu/Home/Cost/R/U/10KP0112BS/15/120258...

Tuition, Undergraduate Admissions, University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign

Tuition, Undergraduate Admissions, University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign

You just cited the out-of-state cost of the flagship state university in Illinois as if it were the in-state cost of a Directional State University in Illinois. Again: you have an argument here that depends on people not Googling list prices (the prices that nobody actually pays) and seeing what they actually are.

No I didn't, that is in state, it's right there on the page.

Directly from the page:

> Illinois Resident

> Tuition & Fees: $18,046-$23,426

> Food & Housing: $15,184

> Books & Supplies: $1,200

> Other Expenses: $2,500

> Total: $36,930-$42,310

I literally looked at the exact school you used in your example and you are just wrong

Couldn't have been clearer that I was referring to tuition, including the fact that I said that specifically upthread.
Well then as long as the kids don't need housing or books or food or to pay the other fees they'll be set. Luckily those are all optional

They in fact differ wildly between students and between colleges! UIC and NIU are commuter universities where students generally don't live on campus. Students at UIUC live in campus-provided housing for their first year, but not generally for subsequent years. Everybody, whether they're in school or not, pays for housing. So no, the cost comparison you're offering here is not very useful.

Shortly later

I also think you might have to ask around to find a student paying full price for books.