10. 'Power price cannibalization' for solar happens because solar plants in one area all generate at the same time. This means that they reduce the price of power at that time, “cannibalizing” their own revenues.

11. High solar penetration resulting in power price cannibalization also affects other power plants, but not as much as it affects solar, because solar plants generate most at times when solar is pushing the price down most. This will inhibit further solar build.

12. This is already obvious in Spain, California, Australia and even Germany. Now that the global liquefied natural gas price hike related to Russia invading Ukraine in 2022 has eased, lower power prices drive solar developers to seek long-term contracts again.

13. By 2030 most countries will have spot power prices of zero in sunny hours. This will be passed on to end consumers, to encourage them to shift power demand to sunny periods by electric vehicle and battery charging, preheating, precooling, etc.

14. Low power prices may be great for consumers but they are very bad if you're trying to build more clean power plants. Without demand-side flexibility, the energy transition will fail before fully pushing fossil fuel out of the mix.

15. It's very easy to say "but batteries!" and those are definitely part of the solution. California has over 14GW of batteries in a grid with roughly 50GW peak demand, and the reliability of the grid has improved as its carbon emissions go down.

16. ...but batteries are still small. In 2024, about 181GWh of lithium-ion stationary storage was deployed worldwide, plus 974GWh lithium-ion batteries in vehicles. (https://www.bnef.com/insights/37025).

Lithium-Ion Batteries: State of the Industry 2025 Dataset

This dataset provides an overview of electric vehicle and stationary energy storage battery demand and performance metrics across various sectors and regions. It acts as a summary of the data that BloombergNEF has on the battery industry in 2025.

BloombergNEF
17. Small-scale batteries are a thing too, even though the economics don’t always make much sense. 2024 battery attachment rates – proportion of residential PV buyers who get a battery too – were ~ 80% in Germany and Italy, ~ 50% in Switzerland, UK and California.
18. It is very difficult for installers and financiers to become large and long-term profitable in the residential solar and storage market. Margins are thin and there are diseconomies of scale.
19. In general this is a problem for solar, both for manufacturing and downstream: a distributed industry with low barriers to entry, and therefore few large firms, has little lobbying power. Industry associations work against this to represent the interests of renewables in politics, against those of more naturally consolidated industries like fossil fuels, but they do have a structural disadvantage.
20. There is no way we can build a big enough battery to shift energy from summer to winter. The economics of battery storage are nearly impossible at one cycle a year.
21. Everyone is defining 'long-duration storage technology' wrong. It's not about 6 or 8 hours — you can do that with lithium-ion and probably will — it's about having the capex to add more GWh of capacity decoupled from the capex of adding more GW.
22. Examples of real long-duration storage technologies are pumped hydro (reservoir size is decoupled from turbine capacity), or where the storage medium is big tanks of molten salt, or hot rocks. But all of these do still cost a lot of money if they are only cycling once per year.

23. Lithium-ion will probably continue to be the dominant battery technology. High prices for lithium in 2022-2023 drove interest in sodium-ion, and there are still products coming out, but new lithium production capacity has brought prices back down and so the impetus to switch has been reduced.

(The cure for high prices was, it turned out, high prices.)

24. We oughtta be building more wind generation capacity. Seriously, solar will get built anyway, but wind needs some help, and wind blows in the dark and in the winter. It doesn’t help that solar pushes down power prices and generates renewable energy credits (where relevant), which hurts wind farm economics.
25. To put it another way: when you tell an energy future model to optimise a power portfolio for clean power adequacy, it will give you more wind and less solar than when you tell it to optimise a least-cost electricity sector development.
26. BNEF’s New Energy Outlook modelling doesn’t want to just solve the intermittency problem with loads of batteries. This is because the batteries get lower utilization rates the more you build. Batteries cannibalize batteries long before you get 100% clean power.
27. Hydrogen made with renewable electricity will be used for steel and fertiliser manufacture. Some may be used to make shipping and aviation fuel. Some may even be burned for power in weeks of low renewables, which is one way to shift energy from summer to winter.
28. ...but sometimes net-zero electricity models want to put in hydrogen to cover weeks of low renewables just because the model isn’t given any other option. Deep decarbonization models do weird things. It may turn out there are easier pathways in practice.

29. Electrification of transport is far better than biofuels; solar plants can run an electric car on a small fraction of the land used to grow fuel to run a biofuel car.

30. Decarbonizing aviation is hard. The CEO of Lufthansa said in 2023 that running its fleet on sustainable aviation fuel made from electricity would take half Germany’s current electricity demand. BNEF thinks this an underestimate.

31. Direct electrification of aviation would be better. BNEF research did track orders for 989 electric aircraft (mostly small ones) as of early 2022, but this is a long term project. Fingers crossed. (www.bnef.com/insights/30267 ).

32. Heatpumps are better for heating homes than hydrogen, but in seasonal climates like northern Europe will exacerbate the seasonal demand and supply mismatch for solar. We need to build wind and probably nuclear as well.

33. How mismatched is European seasonal solar supply and electricity demand? Well, here is the situation for my fully electrified house in Switzerland with 13.2kW of solar, a heatpump and an EV. I would have needed about 122kW of PV to be self-sufficient across December.

34. Europeans shouldn't feel guilty about using electricity for airconditioning, it'll all come from the sun anyway by 2030. Solar generation times and seasons match airconditioning demand pretty well, which is good news for really hot countries.
35. Nuclear is safer than coal and climate change, and better than gas unless the gas plants are running very rarely. Batteries should help with the unfavourable ramping economics of nuclear (you *can* turn nuclear plants up and down, but you really don’t want to).

36. We’re finally getting serious about net zero carbon. Getting that last 5-20% of carbon out of power will be hard, and require some expensive solutions. The first 80-95% is easy-ish but we're getting on with it.

37. You can be cynical about government and corporate net zero emissions targets if you like, but they're a lot better than no net zero emissions targets.

38. Ordinary people have no idea how much progress we’ve made. Tell people at parties that UK carbon emissions in 2023 were at their lowest level since 1879, for example. Most developed economies are now reducing carbon emissions without lowering quality of life.
39. …It would still really help if rich people would stop pissing carbon into the atmosphere for no reason.

40. There are signs that solar is reducing fossil fuel burn in poorer countries, for example Pakistan — which has no significant government support for solar but has built over 25GW just in response to high prices for power and fuel for irrigation.

41. This has interesting and not uniformly positive side effects. Pakistan may be the first market to see a true 'utility death spiral' where customers who can go solar do so, leaving other customers to pay for the grid, raising power prices..

42. Annual build volumes of solar are rising, but they are not guaranteed to rise forever. This is a symptom of solar starting to actually make a dent in power demand, with negative feedback effects such as power price cannibalization.

43. Data centers are increasing power demand, but let's keep a sense of proportion. BNEF estimates total electricity demand from data centers of 373TWh in 2024 (1.2% of global generation) and expects this to increase to 1,596TWh (4.4% of global) in 2035.

This is a source of some disappointment to renewable energy project developers.

(https://www.bnef.com/themes/t0hlzngpl47w00 )

AI Data Centers Fuel Quicker Growth In Power Demand

BloombergNEF
44. Demand for solar panels to sub-Saharan Africa is also strong, measured by Chinese exports, though the total was still less than 13GW in 2024 (it's hard to sell to poor people). Nigeria, Ethiopia, Congo, Kenya, Senegal and Zambia are the largest African markets in 2025 to date.

45. Some governments are definitely out to fight against a better future.

46. Achieving a net-zero energy transition, for most countries, will not look like winning a war or marching into a capital waving flags. It will be the ability to say "no thank you, we do not want what you are selling" to the petrostates, and walking (or cycling, or taking an electric bus, or driving an EV) away.

47. While moving to a circular economy with 100% recycling rates is essential in the long run, it’s not a challenge for PV in particular; few PV panels have been recycled to date only because the vast majority are still in use. It can be, and is, done.

Volumes are still tiny compared with most things we also have to recycle.

48. Floating solar, agrivoltaics, balcony solar: yes you can put solar panels on anything that stands still long enough. If you have a lightweight encapsulant, you can also put them on something that moves.

The decision comes down to: in this use case, will the solar panels get in the way, and will they get broken by normal activities?

49. 'Agrivoltaics' is defined as 'solar that gets preferential legal / permitting treatment applying to agrivoltaics projects' and therefore the definition is local. It's not really a different technology and so a general statement on it is not really possible.

It's harder to harvest crops and work land under solar panels, so many owners may quietly drop the farming bit once support is secured.

50. Grazing sheep under solar panels should not qualify them for agrivoltaics support. Solar subsidising sheep farming is not particularly an environmental plus.

(Some crops do seem to work well with PV, for example shade-tolerant berries, and in some climates, vegetables for which growth isn't limited by light availability. Farming involves a lot of optimising for local conditions and so often the answer to 'what works?' will be 'it depends....').

51. For 6 years I have been refusing to get excited about perovskites until a perovskite company can disclose a commercial partnership with a named major module manufacturer. They have now. Still not excited.

Crystalline silicon is honestly good enough.

52. Get your rooftop solar system built when you have scaffolding up for something else, 'cos scaffolding is expensive. Ideally build it when you’re building the roof, there will never be a better time. Rooftop solar mandates are good but don't do much unless you are adding a lot of new buildings, which most developed countries aren't.
53. Anyone buying a new internal combustion car now is silly. EVs aren’t the answer to everything – especially congestion of cities – but they do use much less energy, it's relatively easy-to-decarbonise energy, and, with flexibility, they can support the grid.
54. Levelized Cost of Electricity, LCOE, should be defined as “what you gotta pay someone per MWh to get them to build you a power plant”. Tax treatment and future inflation assumptions can turn out to be the most important inputs.
55. Very few people who are not solar project financiers understand tax treatment for solar projects (I don’t) and it’s important enough to make most calculated LCOEs irrelevant to power purchase prices.
56. Solar thermal tower and heliostat designs, especially with molten salt storage, are still not working very well. We might even end up using molten salt for multi-day and seasonal storage... but heat it with PV.
57. Solar plant operation and maintenance in desert environments will prove more challenging than PV project stakeholders currently expect. Climate risk from hurricanes, hailstorms, fire and floods is on the rise for solar as for everything else.
58. Traded electricity wholesale markets are the worst way of deciding how to dispatch energy resources, except for all the others that have been tried.
59. Many solar project developers complaining their problem is 'finance' are being disingenuous. Their problem is, their project is rubbish and they cannot convince anyone otherwise. This is not just a solar thing.
60. There is enough land for lots of solar (most studies suggest 1-2% of land would be required to generate all the solar most countries can use). There’s also loads and loads of roofs, so let’s see those who oppose ground-mounted solar support higher-cost roof-mounted solar.
61. If you record PV capacity and only have room for one figure, record MW(DC), the module capacity. It tells you more about what the project will produce, how much land it needs, and what it will cost than MW(AC), which is just the size of the wire. I will die on this seemingly obscure hill.

@solar_chase amazing thread - thank you so much!

While we can’t “individual action” our way out of problems, one of the cool things about solar is that (if you have your own roof) you can do quite a bit as an individual.

Is there anything similar for wind, or does the current tech still largely rely on wind farms?

@TindrasGrove
As far as I understand, physics and economics of wind power mean they don't work on small scales like a roof.

But you can band together with your town and build wind turbines in your area. It's not super individual and more like your municipality building a power plant, but people can invest money or land and benefit from cheap/free power and returns, either directly or indirectly through the municipality. This can help greatly with local acceptance of wind farms.

@solar_chase

@Flo_Rian @TindrasGrove @solar_chase (From what I've read, I would agree but with "don't work" replaced with "are absolutely, irreconcilably abysmal". The wind mostly just doesn't blow near most roofs – you end up spinning your turbine something like 5% of the time or less.)

@dcporter Yeah, what I saw is that "home" wind turbines can end up consuming more electricity than they produce. So while they _technically_ work, they don't make any sense.

@TindrasGrove @solar_chase

@solar_chase curious if the demand and difficulty of storing energy for winter means that we should be concentrating on insulation a lot more than solving consumption

@etchedpixels @solar_chase

Reduce,
if you can't reduce, THEN Reuse,
if you can't reuse, THEN Recycle (use green alternatives)

Oddly, that message doesn't seem to get transmitted properly by commercial media, mainly because of boils down to "stop buying shit you don't need" :/ .