Angel (She/They)How far left am I?
Cowbee [he/they]Contrary to how we use the terms in common dialogue, and as shorthand (I am guilty of this as well), treating ideology as a spectrum leads to problematic understandings of ideology. Everything you just said, I agree with (generally, at least, I’m against patriotism and nationalism in imperialist countries like the US, as well as myself generally being for armed revolution), but I also believe that we should transition economically to socialism, ie an economy where public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, not private. A social democrat may also agree with everything you said, but they would answer the opposite, ie that private ownership should be principle. I would be considered “far-left” while the social democrat would be “center-right,” but both of us can agree with you 100% on what you’ve listed.
I’m a Marxist-Leninist, I agree with Marx’s analysis of capitalism and advancements on scientific socialism and dialectical and historical materialism, as well as with Lenin’s advancements on analyzing how capitalism turns to imperialism over time, and on organizational structure and practice. If you want, I wrote an introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list, that might help you learn some more about what I am talking about.
Essentially, though, you’re progressive socially, but where you stand economically is pretty unknown, so we can’t really tell where you “fit in,” and even then terms like left vs right are complicated beyond being for socialism vs capitalism. Trying to compare, say, an anarchist and an ML on how “left” we are is silly, in my opinion, it isn’t a contest nor is that an accurate way to compare ideologies. Same with comparing capitalist ideologies.
Read Theory, Darn it! An Introductory Reading List for Marxism-Leninism - Lemmy
“Without Revolutionary theory, there can be no Revolutionary Movement.” — Vladimir Lenin, What is to be Done? [http://www.marx2mao.com/Lenin/WD02.html] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/seGAATanGtfufEkQoLH1X3] It’s time to read theory, comrades! As Lenin says, “Despair is typical of those who do not understand the causes of evil, see no way out, and are incapable of struggle.” Marxism-Leninism is broken into 3 major components, as noted by Lenin in his pamphlet The Three Sources and Three Component Parts of Marxism [http://www.marx2mao.com/Lenin/CPM13.html]: | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/8yUvkgJ4m5ZHPdESAyjg8k] 1. Dialectical and Historical Materialism 2. Critique of Capitalism along the lines of Marx’s Law of Value 3. Advocacy for Revolutionary and Scientific Socialism As such, I created the following list to take you from no knowledge whatsoever of Leftist theory, and leave you with a strong understanding of the critical fundamentals of Marxism-Leninism in an order that builds up as you read. Let’s get started! Section I: Getting Started What the heck is Communism, anyways? For that matter, what is fascism? 1. Friedrich Engels’ Principles of Communism [http://www.marx2mao.com/M&E/PC47.html] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/8JtpMuYQ6Ho6gzYtLLuL4k] The FAQ of Communism, written by the Luigi of the Marx & Engels duo. Quick to read, and easy to reference, this is the perfect start to your journey. 2. Michael Parenti’s Blackshirts and Reds [https://c.encryptionin.space/epubs/blackshirts-and-reds/] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/uZFGgeJsE4bHHBTd1m3eFK] Parenti’s characteristic wit is on full display in this historical contextualization and analysis of fascism and Communism. Line after line, Parenti debunks anti-Communist myths. This is also an excellent time to watch the famous “Yellow Parenti” [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP8CzlFhc14] speech. Section II: Historical and Dialectical Materialism Ugh, philosophy? Really? YES! 3. Georges Politzer’s Elementary Principles of Philosophy [https://c.encryptionin.space/epubs/elementary-principles-of-philosophy/] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/wv44hU6NjoLgn6yrnXBQjc] By understanding Dialectical and Historical Materialism first, you make it easier to understand the rest of Marxism-Leninism. Don’t be intimidated! 4. Friedrich Engels’ Socialism: Utopian and Scientific [http://www.marx2mao.com/M&E/SUS80.html] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/nhVVanPX5WPVor7Yy7TDrp?start=3h13m40s] Engels introduces Scientific Socialism, explaining how Capitalism itself prepares the conditions for public ownership and planning by centralizing itself into monopolist syndicates and cartels. Section III: Political Economy That’s right, it’s time for the Law of Value and a deep-dive into Imperialism. If we are to defeat Capitalism, we must learn it’s mechanisms, tendencies, contradictions, and laws. 5. Karl Marx’s Wage Labor and Capital [http://www.marx2mao.com/M&E/WLC47.html] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/nhVVanPX5WPVor7Yy7TDrp?start=1h35m58s] & Wages, Price and Profit [http://www.marx2mao.com/M&E/WPP65.html] | Audiobook [https://youtube.com/watch?v=TjhVZW3HJzM] Best taken as a pair, these essays simplify the most important parts of the Law of Value. 6. Vladimir Lenin’s Imperialism, The Highest Stage of Capitalism [http://www.marx2mao.com/Lenin/IMP16.html] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/8STrUAEfwiFGRFcRsSNqtv] The era of Imperialism, which as the primary contradiction cascades downward into all manner of related secondary contradictions. Section IV: Revolutionary and Scientific Socialism Can we defeat Capitalism at the ballot box? What about just defeating fascism? What about the role of the state? 7. Rosa Luxemburg’s Reform or Revolution [https://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1900/reform-revolution/] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/k5tp58hyGPpTRUtpB79Kra] If Marxists believed reforming Capitalist society was possible, we would be the first in line for it. Sadly, it isn’t. 8. Vladimir Lenin’s The State and Revolution [http://www.marx2mao.com/Lenin/SR17.html] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/6M8bL2HGs5rGXmvThU1JG5] Further analyzes the necessity of Revolution and introduces the economic basis for the withering away of the State. Section V: National Liberation, De-colonialism, and Solidarity The revolution will not be fought by individuals, but by an intersectional, international working class movement. Solidarity allows different marginalized groups to work together in collective interest, unifying into a single broad movement. Marxists support the Right of Self-Determination for all peoples and support National Liberation movements against Imperialism. 9. Vikky Storm & Eme Flores’ The Gender Accelerationist Manifesto [https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/vikky-storm-the-gender-accelerationist-manifesto] | (No Audiobook yet) Breaks down misogyny, and queerphobia, as well as how to move beyond the base subject of “gender” from a Historical Materialist perspective. 10. Leslie Feinberg’s Lavender & Red [https://www.workers.org/book/lavender-red/] | Audiobook [https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXUFLW8t2snsEPC7kkMKkZf-45FrnJTO7] When different social groups fight for liberation together along intersectional lines, they are emboldened and empowered ever-further. 11. Frantz Fanon’s The Wretched of the Earth [https://archive.org/details/the-wretched-of-the-earth] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/p/f3tK7UC2HAK1WLUNg4yVen] & Paulo Freire’s Pedagogy of the Oppressed [https://archive.org/details/FreirePedagogyOfTheOppresed] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/koxxesz38QPVKaAFr8iVTF] De-colonialism is essential to Marxism. Without having a strong, de-colonial, internationalist stance, we have no path to victory nor justice. These books are best taken as a pair, read in quick succession. Section VI: Putting it into Practice! It’s not enough to endlessly read, you must put theory to practice. That is how you can improve yourself and the movements you support. Touch grass! 12. Mao Tse-Tung’s On Practice [http://www.marx2mao.com/Mao/OP37.html] & On Contradiction [http://www.marx2mao.com/Mao/OC37.html] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/qnzYg56huhwgKYk9Py3mcR] Mao wrote simply and directly to peasant soldiers during the Revolutionary War in China. This pair of essays equip the reader to apply the analytical tools of Dialectical Materialism to their every day practice. 13. Vladimir Lenin’s “Left-Wing” Communism, an Infantile Disorder [http://www.marx2mao.com/Lenin/LWC20.html] | Audiobook [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh84f8czc7g] Common among new leftists is dogmatism over pragmatism. Everyone wants perfection, but dogmatic “left” anti-Communists let perfection become the enemy of progress. 14. Jones Manoel’s Western Marxism Loves Purity and Martyrdom, But Not Real Revolution [https://blackagendareport.com/western-marxism-loves-purity-and-martyrdom-not-real-revolution] | (No Audiobook yet) Common among western leftists is fetishization of Marxism, rather than using it as a tool for analysis and social change. This article helps rectify that. 15. Liu Shaoqi’s How to be a Good Communist [https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/liu-shaoqi/1939/how-to-be/index.htm] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/kzi58GMjH9DzSBqz1eTXVb] Organizing is a skill. If we are to be successful, we must work to better ourselves. Congratulations, you completed your introductory reading course! With your new understanding and knowledge of Marxism-Leninism, here is a mini What is to be Done? of your own to follow, and take with you as practical advice. 1. Get organized. The Party for Socialism and Liberation [https://pslweb.org/], Freedom Road Socialist Organization [https://frso.org/], and Red Star Caucus [https://redstarcaucus.org/] all organize year round, every year, because the battle for progress is a constant struggle. See if there is a chapter near you, or start one! 2. Read theory. Don’t think that you are done now! Just because you have the basics, doesn’t mean you know more than you do. If you have not investigated a subject, don’t speak on it! 3. Aggressively combat white supremacy, misogyny, queerphobia, and other attacks on marginalized communities. Cede no ground, let nobody go forgotten. 4. Be industrious, and self-sufficient. Take up gardening, home repair, tinkering. It is through practice that you elevate your knowledge. 5. Learn self-defense. Get armed, if practical. Be ready to protect yourself and others. 6. Be persistent. If you feel like a single water droplet against a mountain, think of canyons and valleys. With consistency, every rock, boulder, mountain, can be drilled through with nothing but water droplets. “Everything under heaven is in utter chaos; the situation is excellent.” — Mao Tse-Tung Credits [https://lemmy.ml/comment/15046925]
comfyI think another important point to add is, I assume that your pro-socialism economic position is not independent of all those social positions. For an example, our economic structure affects whether we can fight climate change, or whether wealthy industries (including oil, mining, dairy) can maintain disproportionate political power and continue driving politics.
Good point!
birdwingThose are far too generic of things to place you on the spectrum more than, “not a conservative fuckwad that doesn’t care about others”, which itself is a huge spectrum.
As Cowbee said, a lot of the differentiation on the left is economic prescription, and your plan for how to bring that prescription in to reality. Most all of the left is socially progressive and accepts others, so that’s not differentiating much.
I don’t think it’s helpful to think in terms of left and right. That presumes that each side is roughly a mirror analogue of the other.
Think in terms of forward and backward. Will your ideas and political leanings push society forward? Will you be making the world better than you found it? Or are you trying to resist change, fighting against progress because the status quo, or the recent past, benefits you in some way?
That’s better than thinking in terms of rigid spectrums, but I still ultimately think the division between socialism and capitalism is useful, ie the PRC is socialist, therefore left while the US Empire is capitalist, therefore right. Progressing forward requires socialism, but beyond that we can get lost in trying to compare how “left” people are as though that genuinely corresponds to material reality in a quantifiable manner. People don’t exist on a rigid spectrum, but generally correspond to different ideologies or parties with consistent policies or viewpoints.
Will your ideas and political leanings push society forward? Will you be making the world better than you found it? Or are you trying to resist change, fighting against progress because the status quo, or the recent past, benefits you in some way?
Strictly speaking, forwards and backwards can only be applied if one has both awareness and a realistic plan to help change the larger situation.
I would argue that it would impact the effectiveness of the effort, but the intention is just as important.
Like if you want to make the world a better place, you can pick up litter in your local area. You could volunteer at the library or conserve energy in whatever way is easiest for you. The desire to move forward is critical, because nobody has all the information. Nobody can know all the angles, and be aware of every impact. Everyone is just doing the best they can with the information they have.
Wanting to be better informed is also a progressive ideal. Know better, do better. We might discover that something we thought was beneficial is actually harmful. The difference between a conservative choice and a progressive choice is that when new information demonstrates that behaviors conflicts with values, the progressive changes their behaviors while a conservative changes their values.
I think what they’re getting at is that everyone is in favor of crime reduction, as an example, but that doesn’t make crime go down. It’s how you answer the how of that question that actually makes a material difference.
I can agree that intent is important for the local (picking up trash, helping to babysit, giving someone food).
There is no downside for trying.
I would argue that for the state and nation different standards should apply.
If one naively reinforces what they want to change, then it makes them a burden to society, if only a little.
We are designed to instinctively know the causes of issues in the small group. Understanding what we cannot see takes education
Insofar as “left” and “right” are really a thing they’re just about whether or not you support monarchy or authoritarianism (right-wing) or democracy (left-wing). What you’ve said are cultural things that don’t really map to that very well.
Normally left and right are about socialism vs capitalism, and all states are “authoritarian,” including socialist democracies, in that all states are the political arm of the ruling class, be that class capitalists or workers. A socialist state is “authoritarian” against capitalists, while being democratic for the working class, and left-wing. Until we erase the basis for the state, ie until we collectivize production so as to erase class, there will be a state and thus “authoritarianism,” so it’s better for the working class to be in charge.
darklamerHow far left am I?
You are possibly not left at all, for every single one of the issues you list in your post is also promoted by established right-wing parties.
Homeless people should get free housing.
Danish right-wing populist party Dansk Folkeparti explicitly support that:
I think what you are showing is that far right parties often incorporate one or two left-wing policies in order to gain popularity. Cherry-picking those and putting them together does not create a realistic profile of right wing opinions.
I think a much simpler explanation is that none of those issues are inherently right-wing or left-wing, which is what I wanted to demonstrate with my examples.
AdaIt’s not just that. What you mentioned is a real phenomenon, but not always the case.
One other reason is when right-wing parties don’t realize that their policies are contradictory in practice. This is common in syncretic politics, like Classical Fascism, which has strong roots in both Syndicalism and Nationalism. Mussolini’s class collaborative corporatism [as in corpus, ‘body’] is a policy which sounded progressive on paper but in reality did not prevent the worker exploitation it aimed to lessen.
Another is that even reactionaries can recognize some good ideas, as long as it doesn’t contradict their personal values. I personally know conservatives with pro-environmental policies, because they appreciate and care about the ecosystem and our food supply chain. I know another strong conservative who is anti-privatization but consistently votes for a pro-privatization party! Politics is complex, not a team sport where every voter toes a line.
Swedish right-wing populist party Sverigedemokraterna explicitly support that:
They don’t support housing for everyone because they don’t believe that non western foreigners should be allowed in to the country, and they don’t believe that people who aren’t “culturally Danish” are citizens.
So they don’t believe in housing for all
German right-wing populist party Alternative für Deutschland is led by a lesbian who calls her party "the only real protective force for gays and lesbians in Germany
They’re an explicitly transphobic party who doesn’t extend queer rights to trans people, even if they’re gay or lesbian. They actively practice discrimination against LGBTQ folk.
For american standards, you’re basically a commie, lol
For the rest of the world, you would be center-left.
The thing that would push you farther to the left or back to the center would be economic issues: you’ve only talked about social issues, but what about the economy and government?
- Should the government play a big part in regulating businesses?
- Should people pay more taxes, especially if they are rich?
- Should essential services such as roads, electricity, water, postal services and healthcare be provided and managed by the government or by private businesses?
There are also some test online that place you on the political spectrum by asking you those kinds of questions, it might be worth checking them out.
OTOH, I kinda feel bad because you live in a place where there are only effectively 2 parties (right and far right), and chosing another one is going to waste your vote essentially. People like Sanders and AOC have a huge following, but they have no chance of success imho
DsklnsadogMost of what you describe isn’t politics, it’s wishful thinking. Real solutions require trade-offs, not just good intentions. Ideals are nice, but policies need to work in the real world, and even here in Europe, where these ideas are often praised, we’re starting to see the strain of too many entitlements and too few taxpayers.
Lunatique PrincessHave you traveled outside of America before and do you have a passport?
Since you live in the US, this makes you a far left radical terrorist. You are now on a list.
Play this for a week: www.nationstates.net
Then look where you fall in this graph
From what I read the issues can give wildly differing results, though.
That said, I’d wage that if they played it accordingly to their own IRL beliefs, most normal people would fall anywhere inbetween these;
- Inoffensive Centrist Democracy
- Democratic Socialists
- New York Times Democracy
- Left-Leaning College State
- Civil Rights Lovefest
- Scandinavian Liberal Paradise*
- This one really should be labelled “Scandinavian Social Democrat Paradise”.
Social Democrats are subcategories of liberal, though.
That’s a horrible graph, and really shows that the problems with placing ideology on a spectrum isn’t solved by trying to abstract it with more dimensions.
CurlyWurlies4AllTry this one. See where you fall. Always interesting to compare across countries as well.
Terms like “left” and “right” are subjective, and frankly, not a useful way to understand politics due to its idealistic nature. Ask ten people what “left” even means and you’ll get several answers.
Why The Political Compass is Wrong: Establishing An Accurate Model of Political Ideology
The Political compass is wrong. ALL our mainstream models of politics and ideology are embarrassingly wrong. After outlining how these models are flawed, thi...
No one cares.
crime should somehow become a very rare thing to deal with.
I love the idea that this is somehow an idea specific to one part of the political spectrum
Do you believe private property is a fundamental human right? If yes, Do you believe that people who own or run businesses should be able to pay a living wage?
Do you have a theory of political change? What is it?
Are you familiar with theories of imperialism, colonialism, neocolonialism? Are you pro-reparations?
Do you believe economic degrowth is necessary to avoid climate change?
Are you opposed to the genocide in Palestine? Do you support a one or two state solution?
Are you a British Green or an American Green?
I worry that by asking these questions directly it might affect any answers but these are “further left” than your stances.
Based on what you shared I’d say you’re a “progressive liberal”, which is a right-leaning moderate position. But that’s where a lot of revolutionary leftists, including myself, started out.
What really matters to me when relating to progressive liberals is:
If you’re willing to educate yourself, and getting involved in a political party like you’re doing could help.
if your positions are based on a real spiritual progressivism, or if someone acts fundamentally reformist/opportunist.
I personally think a better question is what the fuck are you trying to get out of posting this? I mean if you want someone to tell you what a good lefty you are you can always go on buzzfeed, so like…what’s the goal here?