Mastodawn

tptacek Oct 9, 2025

Why would you need another IP protocol besides UDP? Anything you can do directly under an IP header, you can do under a UDP header as well, and the UDP header itself is tiny.

Going back to David Reed, this is specifically why UDP exists: as the extension interface to build more non-TCP transport protocols.

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supertrope Oct 9, 2025

IPSec originally ran on raw IP. These days it has to be tunneled in UDP due to TCP or UDP only ossification.

PMTUD breaks when ICMP is blocked.

The same argument can be made that everything but HTTP being blocked is not a problem because everything can be transported on top of HTTP.

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tptacek

The same argument is made about HTTP. But at least in the HTTP case, you can point to protocol behavior the middle-layer protocol is enforcing on you. You can't do that with UDP; UDP is just IP, with some ports, and a checksum.