I’ll save us all some time. They’re a huge Israel supporter and the majority of their comments from the past 2 weeks are zionist bullshit.

Also a weird post comparing the Kimmel cancelation to Roseanne’s, and saying Kimmel’s statement about kirk was vile.

I don’t think there should.

Israel already has its safespace, it’s called the media.

ZIONISTS.

Do you understand that this is a word with a different meaning from Judaism? Like, if I said “Theocratic-Christian”, is your first thought “Sounds like a conspiracy meant to smear all Christians.”? Or do you have the critical thinking skills to understand that there is more than one sect of any religious belief? Because the other option is that you are intelligent, but just like to bend words in order to score semantic victories while your soul withers under the weight of the horrors which you choose to defend. That can’t be it, I don’t think you’re an evil guy,

Jews have been here for thousands of years, half of my family was Jewish, everyone aside from my great-grandparents on one side died in the camps. We don’t control shit.

ZIONISTS are religious ethno-supremecist racists who have been around for roughly 100 years. My grandmother is older than Israel. And the outlets which I named are clearly and objectively controlled by ZIONIST interests. If you don’t like that, do something to change it instead of just pouting when others mention it.

If you hear Zionism, and conflate it with Judaism, that’s not anybody’s problem but yours.

Yeah I know, it’s a huge problem right now. Antisemitism is rising in a dangerous way and if you want to blame someone, his name starts with B and ends in enjamin Netanyahu. Or “The Decades-Long Funder of Hamas” as he is sometimes known.

That’s what I mean, this conflation with insane Zionists like Bibi or Ben Givr or Smoltritch or Larry Ellison or settlers in the West Bank with the religion of Judaism is the #1 cause of increasing antisemitism. Nothing even comes close. When humans see evil, we want it to stop, go figure huh?

Like you said “Sounds a lot like ‘jews control the media’.”. Yeah, because Zionists are making it their entire goal to do that. They are talking openly about it. Not Jews, Zionists. Listen to Bibi’s cringy-ass recent speech about controlling the media narrative. They are saying that this is what they are doing. They are intentionally making the conflation so that people like you, can come on here and claim that anti-zionism is antisemitism. In this way, they can continue their genocide. I made my choice, because I am an adult. I don’t care what they call it. Have you?

We see every day unspeakable atrocities, and the leaders of the nations responsible for this go on TV and tell us all that it is hateful to Jews if we stand against this evil because the perpetrators are Israeli. So people are given the choice, by Zionsts, to either stand against evil or be labeled antisemitic.

Do you see the problem here?

Israelis are waking up too, you ever wonder why there is always a magic reason to postpone elections whenever Bibi is on the block? He will never stop war by choice. If it stops, he retires in prison, and he knows this. He is using you.

So this Zionist-Occupied Media will cease to be once Bibi is gone?

How much overlap between antizionism and antisemitism do you think there is?

zionism is a form of antisemitism. as a jew i speak against zienism because zionism is against me. let me explain briefly the problem:

• antisemitism is a philosophy that jews have no place in the societies where they are and they should leave for somewhere else
• zionism is the philosophy that jews have no place in the societies where they are and they should leave for somehwere else

yes, antisemites sometimes use aesthetic antizionism to hide their hate as they inject it into the conversation. i’ve written at least one report in the last 24 hours for someone using a slur as a stand in for “zionist” that has a slightly different meaning to jews and white supremacists alike.

but that does not mean we should stop discussing antizionism, and the way you are approaching this issue in this comment is actually a problem. it reads like you want to stop the conversation to prevent the risk that an antisemite will use antizionism to spread their antisemitism. but this only supports the status quo, and the status quo is antisemitic and zionist in nature.

we live, all of us, in a world of illusory divisions that the oppressor (we call the oppressor pharaoh since our history goes back to the bronze ages, and pharaoh was the first opressor we knew of) exploits. by shutting down the discussion of these illusions, you allow people to remain in the dark. please be more open to that allowing discussion of antizionism is important and needed.

i do. i deeply deeply do. but the other person is talking about something else: israel and aipac feeding the ZOG conspiragy theory and letting antisemites and zionists control the narrative. the voice of many jews, jews who believe it is their role to speak against opression, are being silenced right now. a distorted view of who we are is being nomalized. no, jews don’t control the media or the government. and this other poster was explicitly not claiming that. but a political ideology of hate is becoming normalized. several, in fact, in concert with eachother. to understand this it’s important to understand what modern israeli zionism is and how it aligns itself in the global movement toward authoritarianism.

modern isreali zionism was cultivated in an environment of white supremacy and is a form of it. the major white supremacist champions right now are russia, the united states, and israel. overall, the media is controlled by white supremacy beneficiaries because that’s what the overall global system of capital has been set up around for 600 years. zionism, being attached to that, gets to set the narrative about what antisemitism in this moment, and it benefits them to align themselves with other white supremacists who want jews to leave their places in society to go somewhere else.

the other commenter is actually doing a really good job staying on message and making it clear what the problem is they’re talking about. when i see comments like yours equating discussing this problem to believing in the false narrative that jews control everything it makes me feel tired and sad. i do believe your heart is in the right place, and that you mean well, but what you are doing is unhelpful to furthering the discussions we should be having to dismantle the hate that we experience.

instead of asking if i believe the zionist occupied government conspiracy theory is antisemitic, i wish you would ponder why it is israel promotes white nationalist narratives about who jews are. i want you to think about the fact that ben gvir is called “the israeli david duke.” we live in an era of systematic racism and zionism is the jewish flavor of that. israel, the white supremacist state, gets to attach their propaganda to other white supremacist propaganda because it fits in.

you do explain it nicely.

I’m curious, do you think we should start using a different term to refer to Israel’s actions?

I ask since zionism, by definition, means recognition of a Jewish state. I don’t necessarily think that’s a bad thing, though I do think Israel’s current actions are bad. I also feel as if it’s worth mentioning that neo-nazis and white supremacists have found themselves a goldmine in spreading their conspiracy and bigotry, it’s quite alarming.

so. i’m going to answer a little biased. my family is from a place in europe where religious tolerance was the norm from ~300-1883. i think a jewish state, just like any ethnonationalist state, theocratic state, or if i’m being honest any state is a mistake. i do not think zionism being equated to racial/religious violence is a mistake given that the entire project of creating a jewish homeland started with deciding if it shoud be in the levant, modern day Ukraine, or the united states. the levant was ultimately selected less based on the historical merits of some manner of landback movement, but instead based on operational military realities.

in other words: modern day israel is where it is mostly because it was assumed Florida and Lviv would be places too hard to take over via violence. i cannot endorse this course of action in good conscience. during the rise of zionism as a political ideology, another one also rose: the concept of Doikayt. zionism is neocolonialism. zionism is “we have learned the oppressors ways through the last 12k years and now it’s time we were on top.” Doikayt is “no one should suffer as we have and i cannot be free as long as anyone is not free.”

i very much believe that safety for the jewish people will not come from a jewish state, or any other state. it will come from meeting our neighbors, making friends with them, dancing and eating with them, and helping them achieve freedom from our united opressors. the thing to understand, as i see it, is that states are illusions of order. they are coagulations of violence that mimic acting in their people’s best interest not in order to provide for their people, but in order to maintain control.

so. no. i don’t think we need a new word. the old word has been a problem we’ve been working to combat for 140 years. the old word represents an entire ideology of hate and pain that will not ever provide us the safety it promises. and if we do need a new word to describe the problems with a jewish state, it should be in yiddish to represent that zionism is not rooted in the jewish identity, but rather in ashkenazic trauma response, much as Doikayt, hereness, is a yiddish word.

i think a jewish state, just like any ethnonationalist state, theocratic state, or if i’m being honest any state is a mistake.

I agree completely. Does that include the arab states throughout the middle-east and palestine itself? These are also ethnonationalist states.

yes. i also support liberation movements in Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, and Saudi Arabia, as well as movements throughout the muslim world towards progress. like i said. i cannot be free until we’re all free.

but also.

i don’t see how this is relevant. it seems like a form of whataboutism on the face of it and it’s making me uncomfortable and reconsider what your aims in this discussion are.

??? they’re the first nation i listed

and no one is excluded from my drive for the liberation of all people. i cannot be free until we’re all free. the ones i listed are simply ones i have friends directly involved in, ones i selfishly have personal stake in because i want my personal friends to sing with joy in a safe and just world where everyone has food, water, shelter, and the right to love who they love.

oh lol, sorry i derped, was juggling multiple talks at once, wires crossed

how do you think peace will be achieved? since i just don’t see it ever happening

same way as everywhere:

all peoples of the earth are ultimately only one. it’s a long road, but it’s worth taking

I hope you don’t mind me poking holes in your peace plan. But doesn’t faith contradict the no ethnonationalism from before?

And I agree with education, but what should the response be when Hamas refuses to teach the holocaust to its people’s children?

i don’t see any holes poked: