I've been trying to find a name or descriptor for people who I think are looking at "AI" broadly and soberly, with a genuinely objective perspective and information that's not captured by the big tech companies but also fluent in the technology behind it. ( @simon would be the exemplar here.) What would you call this cohort? Because I think it's sort of a community without a name, which limits its impact.

@anildash are people ever "genuinely objective"? You probably mean some form of "lack of strong emotions towards AI" but I'd argue that that - given the real impacts and flaws of AI - creates a bit of a false middle ground.

Even though you might not see it as that I would call a lot of them the (neo-)luddites. But I feel like you are looking for something different that is a lot harder to pin down because they can't be structurally critical which kinda limits the target a lot.

I wonder how useful defining that group is though. Is there a neutral position when looking at something actively harming many of the structures defining our world?

@tante @anildash yeah if someone says they're objectively non-emotionally asking Mecha Hitler something, anything really, they are going in a pretty specific bin on my social landscape

@jplebreton @tante @anildash It doesn't really have to be about Grok or whatever. I think the cohort Anil is talking about (evidenced by his mention of Simon) is one that I have a foot in myself -- for example, in my hobby time I'm working with fully local voice assistant tech that uses small LLMs at different levels of the stack, all in service of not sending recordings of my house to Amazon or Google.

"Objective" is probably the wrong word though.

@darius @tante @anildash a lot of so-called "moderates" *do* use Grok for shit though, even if they're just "trying it out" or doing benchmarks or whatever, and i am wary of any effort to normalize that by drawing cohort lines around both them and people at the least compromised edges. it is an overton window of sorts.
like i know we've all read the news but this is so deeply repugnant to me i cannot get past it. i guess that makes me too radical to be on Team Reasonable. https://www.politico.com/news/2025/05/06/elon-musk-xai-memphis-gas-turbines-air-pollution-permits-00317582
'How come I can’t breathe?': Musk's data company draws a backlash in Memphis

The company’s turbines — enough to power 280,000 homes — run without emission controls in an area that leads Tennessee in asthma hospitalizations.

Politico
@darius @tante @anildash i'm sorry i respect everyone in this @ group here but i am frankly too emotional about it to be able to participate meaningfully. [bows out]