Goat and PugJesus take on DB0 ADMINS

https://lemmy.world/post/35341263

Goat and PugJesus take on DB0 ADMINS - Lemmy.World

Starting with this post: https://sh.itjust.works/post/44999037 [https://sh.itjust.works/post/44999037] [https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/13b42f60-2f9a-4ff7-9744-2eb33d6c69a5.png] [https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/643ccc89-dcec-4862-8a0d-9707f704c5e6.png] Continues here: https://sh.itjust.works/post/45035437 [https://sh.itjust.works/post/45035437] [https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/b1183ac6-9ebd-4187-9983-ad845595e395.png] [https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/905ca88d-b9bc-414f-b0aa-081e9b52ca9c.png] [https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/6b63eabc-8b8e-4718-91da-1d306e3c4634.png] [https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/377cd0f3-2f3f-4f0c-b4e1-526d75fd2750.png] [https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/7df15308-59f6-4814-b105-e99924c1f771.png] [https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/8d7692ce-4f96-47ff-80c8-6cef13220fbc.png] More posts discussing the fallout: Dbzer0 admin claiming Uyghur genocide is ‘overblown and misrepresented’ [https://sh.itjust.works/post/45083823] Dbzer0 admin casually defending Uyghur genocide denial because “libs worse”, yikes [https://sh.itjust.works/post/45064464] Banned from meanwhileongrad for “No db0 allowed”. [https://sh.itjust.works/post/45166925] On Dbzer0, ‘harassing mods’ is when you criticize the top admin of .ml for responding to a Wiki link with a Lemmy search [https://sh.itjust.works/post/45183748] Does lemmy.ml own db0? db0 denies the Uyghur genocide, begins to backtrack that maybe there are human rights abuses, and then immediately backs off as soon as lemmy.ml admin, Davel, steps in. [https://lemmy.world/post/35332685] Tankie bar, db0, will remove your comments and ban you if you criticise lemmy.ml admin, Davel, for denying the Uyghur genocide [https://lemmy.world/post/35332645] When the tankie bar, db0, is pushed about communists purging peasants, Davels swoops in with dehumanisation. Also, if you bring up the Holodomor then you’re a nazi. [https://lemmy.world/post/35332637] [https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/a5efa9e5-792b-423a-bd6b-1970e775658b.png] Removed false allegations against goat from a post on db0 An anarchist tankie did a write-up of the constant use of ‘degenerate’ as an insult specifically in the MoG comm [https://lemmy.ml/post/35392265] Another anarchist tankie did a write-up of the situation [https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52313315] More links: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52444570 [https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52444570] https://sh.itjust.works/comment/329886 [https://sh.itjust.works/comment/329886] https://sh.itjust.works/post/151703/234360 [https://sh.itjust.works/post/151703/234360] https://sh.itjust.works/comment/338067 [https://sh.itjust.works/comment/338067]

Just going to add another post discussing this; I did a write-up of the constant use of ‘degenerate’ as an insult specifically in the MoG comm, posted on hexbear, and cited the inciting incident as the latest people to get dubbed ‘tankies’ by this crew.

It’s a fascist dogwhistle, especially the way its use is normalized on MoG. Their specialty is in turning everyone they disagree with into a ‘tankie’ that can’t possibly have a point, and consequently all abuse is then fair game. Ironic that they immediately started trying to flip the script with accusations of ‘tankie bar’

Meanwhile at the Nazi Bar [effort] - Lemmy

I originally summarized my observations replying to Blaze in a different thread [https://lemmy.ml/post/35276820/20756871] I figured I’d include them here because in case anyone wants to correct my interpretation. I had asked how he feels about posting in a com alongside people who are calling other users ‘degenerate roaches’ He brought up that Hexbear users using the word roaches to refer to people too, my response: ___ From that link [https://hexbear.net/search?q=cockroaches&type=Comments&listingType=All&page=1&sort=New] pretty much all of the usage is talking about the literal insect, or talking about reactionaries/fascists using it to refer to muslims, immigrants and other ‘undesirables’. Out of the handful of remaining uses, it’s stuff like in the hexbear thread on this meanwhileongrad thread: [https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/97ad0f13-1b61-425c-8046-c7e5fa28dfa5.png] [https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/87c584e9-3fa4-412c-ac12-53e32517ce19.png] This is the most questionable usage I found [https://hexbear.net/comment/6320004], and it’s referring to fash/reactionaries. That’s not the main point though, the bigger issue was getting called a ‘degenerate’ that’s pretty much a red flag that someone’s a cryptofash. citing db0 on this one: [https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/45a0a1fa-a570-4301-be8c-30364a9caa81.png] compare the use of the term on shit [https://sh.itjust.works/search?q=degenerate&type=All&listingType=Local&page=1&sort=TopAll] vs on hexbear [https://hexbear.net/search?q=degenerate&type=All&listingType=Local&page=1&sort=TopAll]: While looking I found this one on hexbear from 5 years ago, almost 90 upvotes shitting on stalin for criminalizing homosexuality, and quoting him calling someone degenerate [https://hexbear.net/comment/366304]. I read this as extremely critical of Stalin: [https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/a0d19ac0-2d5e-449a-8ea5-de7feb0bf869.png] All the usage on hexbear I see is either self-deprecating or discussing (negatively) about people using the term. > Vaush this year defended the idea that he is allowed to call trans people shit like “subhuman, degenerate, mentally ill, leeching off society” if they step out of line and oppose him or his breadtube friends. [https://hexbear.net/comment/1135942] meanwhile on meanwhile on grad: > My experience on lemmy is vastly improved after blocking lemmygrad, lemmy.ml, hexbear, beehaw, and pawb. Wiped out vast swathes of degenerates from my feed. [https://sh.itjust.works/post/23522666/13237116] hmmm, calling people degenerates and complaining about commies, progressives and furries. thonk [https://lemmy.ml/api/v3/image_proxy?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhexbear.net%2Fpictrs%2Fimage%2F922fe80d-74f6-43b6-a4e1-c74dbc4df512.png] Goat seems fine with replies calling people he doesn’t like degenerates: [https://sh.itjust.works/post/38666554/18806027] [https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/3a9a73ec-7816-4bc8-b9cd-9b573ad55f1e.png] more examples: > Wouldn’t be surprised to hear they are, but nonetheless the chapo trap house degenerates that make up hexbear and grad are real. They do believe the dumb shit they say. It can’t all just be explained away with CCP and FSB boogeymen unfortunately, that would honestly be better imo. I’m sure some of it is, but mostly it’s people crazy enough to believe the stupid bullshit they spout. [https://sh.itjust.works/post/22633181/12917420] On the shit main community someone deleted their posts after getting called out for this behavior, this is a known issue: [https://sh.itjust.works/post/4188546/2867202] [https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/9eb13fc1-d66f-48c2-b49a-b959a96e2bf9.png] ‘degenerate tankie roaches’ [https://sh.itjust.works/post/39814520/19175227] site admin calls it out, entirely downvoted lol [https://sh.itjust.works/post/37422200/18441833] Like you might think I’m being melodramatic, but I really don’t see how meanwhileongrad isn’t a nazi bar. > As I said, I don’t have a dog in this fight, it seems indeed bad to have such comments on both sides. I really hope you re-assess both sides, because they are not equivalent. I understand, there’s plenty of problematic posters to go around, the issue I have is that it’s normalized calling an instance which is overwhelmingly trans and queer ‘degenerates’, that’s a major red flag, and it’s behavior like that which was why hexbear defederated shit in the first place. [https://hexbear.net/post/504353] sh.it [http://sh.it] doesn’t seem to have improved in that time ___ As a bonus here’s some fun clips from this latest two minutes hate thread: [https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/ec930801-5096-4669-b83b-be6c5cff5899.png] Goat has been really worked up lately, I arrived after the defederation happened, but I read the hexbear threads related to this not long after I started lemmy and his interpretation of events is comically conspiratorial. The chronology was that hexbear had been off doing its own thing for like 3 years, and only re-merged with lemmy due to the technical issues maintaining a separate fork. That happened to coincide with the major reddit wave, correct me if I’m wrong but nobody here is taking orders from dessalines, right? It looks like Hexbear tried to broadly fedarate, some users were looking forward to it, but others apprehensive and preferring to keep everyone else out. Once it became more clear how toxic and unmoderated most of the fediverse was, they made the decision to defederate. Also is there a discord? The only matrix groups I’m aware of are for mods and the trans space. People should probably be aware that there’s potentially nazi trolls hanging out there. [https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/aae42dee-2a63-4e01-a19b-c2f6851b1f54.png] One last one for the road, goat upvote policing and accusing db0 of being pro-uygher genocide. ___ so what’s the official hexbear line on calling people degenerates or cockroaches?

ill add it to the post thank you
Thanks! the only correction I have is that I’m actually an anarchist, I feel like a broken record sometimes having to explain that.

Thanks! the only correction I have is that I’m actually an anarchist, I feel like a broken record sometimes having to explain that.

It might be the constant defence of the PRC, the repeating of Russian propaganda on Ukraine, and simping for an instance that literally removes posts which point out genocide by fascist polities which are painted red, which cause people to correct identify you elsewise.

Believe it or not, passing your online purity tests about geopolitics is not what makes someone an anarchist.

Your use of ‘tankie’ is just ‘disagrees with me from the left’ and it’s been on full display.

as I said earlier:

Their specialty is in turning everyone they disagree with into a ‘tankie’ that can’t possibly have a point, and consequently all abuse is then fair game.

Believe it or not, passing your online purity tests about geopolitics is not what makes someone an anarchist.

Yes, it is quite apparently that you regard playing apologist for fascist states performing genocide as completely in-line with anarchism, bizarre as it is. I guess ‘purity testing’ is ‘questioning whether simping for fascism is really compatible with anarchist thought’, especially considering that you openly support .ml’s removal of anything critical of fascist states.

Your use of ‘tankie’ is just ‘disagrees with me from the left’ and it’s been on full display.

Ah, so defending genocide is a leftist position now. It must be the People’s Genocide.

Wild how every argument with you speedruns straight to hyper-fixating on what Americas enemies are doing.

you regard playing apologist for fascist states performing genocide as completely in-line with anarchism,

I would never play apologist for the fascist states of America and their genocidal war on the Palestinian people, You were the one spending all your energy browbeating everyone expressing disgust with genocide Joe and bomber Harris.

Funny hearing lectures on “what anarchism is” from a social democrat who’s more interested in purity testing leftists on lemmy than building anything outside the ballot box.

Dude explicitly doesn’t want to build anything outside the ballot box. In fact, he considers any alternative than capitalist liberal democracy as “fascism” and would support even violent paramilitary suppression of such. No matter what it is.

He clearly has the Fukuyama brainworms.

Dude explicitly doesn’t want to build anything outside the ballot box.

I’ve explicitly said otherwise, and in conversations with you, no less. But don’t let that stop your attempt to pretend that supporting genocide is somehow justified because “A DemSoc I called a lib was mean to me :'(”

In fact, he considers any alternative than capitalist liberal democracy as “fascism” and would support even violent paramilitary suppression of such.

lmao

Because I regard elections as preferable to a coup explicitly along Bolshevik lines? Bolshevik lines being, in the case that we discussed, quite literally the dissolution of a leftist democratic government the year before?

Nothing like supporting the Vanguard Party suppressing democratic elections to really be a good anarchist, huh?

Astounding that you prefer the taste of boot leather to the horrible position of opposing genocide.

I’ve explicitly said otherwise, and in conversations with you, no less. But don’t let that stop your attempt to pretend that supporting genocide is somehow justified because “A DemSoc I called a lib was mean to me :'(”

Lol ye I already saw your opinion on what you would support if an actual alternative outside the ballot existed. You’d go full fash :D

Nothing like supporting the Vanguard Party suppressing democratic elections to really be a good anarchist, huh?

The democratic elections that ultimately brought about Hitler. Sure, one of us definitelly supports a path that leads directly to fascism.

Lol ye I already saw your opinion on what you would support if an actual alternative outside the ballot existed. You’d go full fash :D

… the “actual alternative outside the ballot” being proposed was a literal fucking coup explicitly along the lines of the ideology that had overthrown a democratically elected leftist government the year before.

“If you don’t support fascism with red paint, you’re the real fascist!”

And you wonder why I call you a tankie apologist.

The democratic elections that ultimately brought about Hitler. Sure, one of us definitelly supports a path that leads directly to fascism.

The dissolution of the united front brought down the left coalition in Weimar Germany, which brought about Hitler. The KPD, whose boots your are insistently licking, withdrew from the united front, at the behest of Stalin.

But tell me more about how your proposed fascist coup would have stopped fascism!

I’m sure the paramilitary murders from the SPD had nothing to do with that.

It’s also fascinating how everything outside of capitalist liberal democracy is “fascist” to you now. Literally zero understanding of fascism. You sound like that meme from the Venezuelan diplomat.

I’m sure the paramilitary murders from the SPD had nothing to do with that.

You think Stalin ordered the KPD to stop cooperating with leftist parties in Weimar Germany because the SPD stopped a coup attempt a decade earlier?

Comrade Stalin, just looking out for the moral purity of his German comrades, huh?

It’s also fascinating how everything outside of capitalist liberal democracy is “fascist” to you now. Literally zero understanding of fascism. You sound like that meme from the Venezuelan diplomat.

… an attempt to implement a totalitarian authoritarian state based on military force and imposing the will of a small party on a wider population under the justification that the will of the minority knows best is generally pretty close to fascism, yes.

I suspect few anarchists would agree with simping for that, but hey, you’ve certainly proved you’re not like other anarchists. Very far from them, in fact!

Given that you’ve literally painted every anarchist you’ve interacted in lemmy as “fascist” and “tankie”, it seems that we’re all more closer ideologically to each other than you claim. But you’re probably confusing us with the ideal “anarchist” in your head, who happens to sound something like Pugjesus apparently :D

For you, much like the tankies you paint us as, a good Anarchist is the one who acts like you want them to act.

Given that you’ve literally painted every anarchist you’ve interacted in lemmy as “fascist” and “tankie”,

Fucking what?

But you’re probably confusing us with the ideal anarchist in your head, who happens to sound something like Pugjesus apparently :D

No? The ideal anarchist sounds nothing like me. I speak to anarchists on here all the fucking time - but I guess you only understand your own narrow social circle, wherein anarchy is somehow compatible with Holodomor denial and Uyghur genocide.

You’ll do anything to simp for fascist hierarchies, I guess.

Fucking what?

you’ve literally painted every anarchist you’ve interacted in lemmy as “fascist” and “tankie”,

I speak to anarchists on here all the fucking time

Name one.

you’ve literally painted every anarchist you’ve interacted in lemmy as “fascist” and “tankie”,

lmao

Name one.

Rockerface. Was that supposed to be some kind of gotcha? You could’ve at least said “Name ten” and made me think for a few moments.

Lol, every anarchist in the anarchist instance is a “tankie” and “fascist” a, but the one person (you claim is an anarchist) that hangs out with goat all the time, is one. Figures.

Lol, every anarchist in the anarchist instance is a tankie

What?

but the one person (you claim is an anarchist) that hangs out with goat all the time, is gone. Figures.

Fucking what.

Your first example of an “anarchist you talk to all the time” is a person who became an anarchist less than a year ago and hangs out in MOG all the time. Every anarchist with years of experience, you’ve labeled as a “tankie” and a “fascist”. You’re an unmitigated joke, mate.

Your first example of an “anarchist you talk to all the time” is a person who became an anarchist less than a year ago.

So now it’s not

but the one person (you claim is an anarchist) that hangs out with goat all the time, is gone. Figures.

It’s that they ‘just became’ an anarchist.

I can name other anarchists I talk to regularly, but it’s clear from your about-face here that you don’t actually give a fuck about any of your claims, you just want to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks.

Every anarchist with years of experience, you’ve labeled as a “tankie” and a “fascist”.

lmao

“No TRUE Scotsman”

So now it’s not

Not what I said, but of course you’re incapable of acting in good faith even for a second.

It’s that they ‘just became’ an anarchist.

I can name other anarchists I talk to regularly, but it’s clear from your about-face here that you don’t actually give a fuck about any of your claims, you just want to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks.

No, it’s ok. Your first example proved everything I wanted it to prove for anyone still paying attention to you. It’s clear anarchists are just a useful tool to you, to be discarded when they don’t serve your purpose, much like they are for the tankies.

Not what I said, but of course you’re incapable of acting in good faith even for a second.

but the one person (you claim is an anarchist) that hangs out with goat all the time, is gone. Figures.

Is a literal and direct quote. Holy fuck. Are you this detached from reality?

No, it’s ok. Your first example proved everything I wanted it to prove for anyone still paying attention to you. It’s clear anarchists are just a useful tool to you, to be discarded when they don’t serve your purpose, much like they are for the tankies.

You literally discarded the example of an anarchist I gave to you when asked because they didn’t fit your preconception of what an anarchist is - namely, someone who’s okay with Holodomor denial, like you are.

Your projection is top-notch, as always.

Is a literal and direct quote. Holy fuck. Are you this detached from reality?

Did I deny they’re an anarchist? I said you claimed it, because I didn’t know this person. Then I checked and adjusted my statements. Any more uncharitable shit you have to throw?

You literally discarded the example of an anarchist I gave to you when asked because they didn’t fit your preconception of what an anarchist is

EDIT:

“No TRUE Scotsman”

This doesn’t argue the way you think it argues. But it is very funny.

“Every principled anarchist with years of experience in the movement is a tankie and a fascist, but this baby anarchist right here that happens to agree with me, is the true anarchist!”

Did I deny they’re an anarchist?

but the one person (you claim is an anarchist) that hangs out with goat all the time, is gone. Figures.

“I didn’t say it, I implied it.”

So THAT’S what a weasel sounds like! I always wondered.

Then I checked and adjusted my statements.

By ‘adjusted’ you mean ‘rejected them as irrelevant’

But according to you, that’s not ‘discarded’, because you lack a basic understanding of the English language or any of the words you use. That, presumably, is why you think anarchism means supporting genocide and fasicsm.

This doesn’t argue the way you think it argues.

Oh, how ironic.

No True Scotsman is about refining a claim ex post facto after its been disproven. From “No Scotsman” to “No TRUE Scotsman”

Or here, “No anarchist” to “No EXPERIENCED anarchist”. Not that that’s true either, but it shows where your mindset is.

Sorry that your understanding of logical fallacies is as meagre as your understanding of history, politics, and the English language itself.

“I didn’t say it, I implied it.”

That’s your uncharitable reading, not what I wrote.

By ‘adjusted’ you mean ‘rejected them as irrelevant’

Also not what I did or said. But do feel free to uncharitably read what you want out of my sentences, nothing I say seems to stop you from that practice.

Or here, “No anarchist” to “No EXPERIENCED anarchist”

No mate, I didn’t reject inexperienced anarchists from anarchism. I merely pointed that it just so happens that you label experienced anarchists as tankies and keep the inexperienced ones who happen to agree with you as examples of the good ones. People can make their own conclusions from that.

That’s your uncharitable reading, not what I wrote.

Sorry that you find a basic reading of what you wrote to be ‘uncharitable’, I understand it’s tied up with your own struggles with basic English.

Also not what I did or said.

This you, fascist?

but the one person (you claim is an anarchist) that hangs out with goat all the time, is gone. Figures.

No mate, I didn’t reject inexperienced anarchists from anarchism. I merely pointed that it just so happens that you label experienced anarchists as tankies and keep the inexperienced ones who happen to agree with you as examples of the good ones. People can make their own conclusions from that.

You asked me to name a single anarchist I talked to. I did so. You then rejected them as irrelevant, and then denied that rejecting them as irrelevant was ‘discarding’ them in context. Sorry that you didn’t understand your own request? Like, holy fuck. Do you work at being this bad at basic communication, or does it just come naturally once you start simping for fascists and playing apologist for genocide?

disengage
Why? Because you think that you shouldn’t be called out for supporting Holodomor denial, making not just bad faith arguments, but shitty and easily disproven bad faith arguments (I note that you didn’t actually understand the refutation of your claim about No True Scotsman, instead trying to link it to identity instead of the refinement of a disproven argument’s claim), and simping for fascist coup attempts as some bizarre form of anarchism against revisionist neolibs like Rosa Luxemburg?